Giving up money and lifestyle ?

[FlyingToIST]

I would like to get inside information from people who have done this. I am currently in IT consulting after some brief unemployment. Married, no children, making close to 80K year there is this tendency of leaving this for $25-30K / year freight gig that may lead to some regional flying.

Leaving family, being away from home is not a factor because I am already traveling heavyly for the IT job. But my only concern is to get in this route and be regretful after 2 years..

Thanks..

 

[GCD]

I had my "fork-in-the-road" when I was about 25. I chose aviation because back then, it was a respected, well paying career.

I was gone a lot of time. I missed my children growing up, and ended up divorced, but I was in a well respected career.

I suffered through several company bankruptcies. I have several different airline wings and uniforms in my collection. I've started over at the bottom several times, but I was in a well respected career.

I came close to declaring personal bankruptcy, but couldn't because I had to keep a secret clearance for my Army National Guard career. I had to scrape by on first year FO pay three times in my 40's, but I was in a well respected career.

I am now turning 50 in a few months. I am laid-off, again, but at least the Army has a mission for me in Iraq. I doubt that my company will ever recall me, but I am in a well respected career.

At my age, I may as well ride it out because I doubt that I can get a job doing anything else, even though I am well educated. If I had it to do all over again, I would rather be a piano player in a whore house than an airline pilot. However, I am in a well respected career.

Now, let me sum it up for you. I'd rather had the oportunity to watch my kids grow up and not have ex wives, than to be in the well respected career as a pilot.

Alas, you are in the fork-in-the-road. Choose wisely.

 

[SpeedBird]

Gulp!!!

 

[infoman]

Flying ToIST,

You are at a crossroads. I will only be able to use my experiences as an example.

First: I was not that kind of money when I started. I was enlisted in the Army, college, instructing,freight, regional, netjets.

Second: My first goal has always been aviation. I side stepped into the Army just to make sure. After 4 years. I was sure.

Final: Flying has to be your first passion. You must have the passion to endure the B.S.

Simple, at 0 dark 30, when your pushing against a line of T- storms that reaches around your world. The radar is failing. Will you be thinking about the money, or will you be prepared mentally to do the right thing?

Nothing macho here. Just another day in the life of a pilot. Push the tin from A to B without any fan fair. You will have to recieve quiet satisfaction that you did it well.

Best of Luck.

P.S. Be sure you sit down with your spouse and explain why you are doing this. The reality will set in when you recieve that first check. If not for the passion than why?

 

[Gulfstream 200]

well....I dont know about all that Tstorm's caving in and meeting your maker and "pushing tin" stuff....

but I would say keep the decent paying job, buck for a big promotion and buy yourself a Pitts or something to get your kicks in.

Aviation can be very unfriendly, its not good to raise a family on regional F/O pay. Look at the guys here who talk about "the dream" and "always learning something" and "it gets no better".....they all have 700-1000 hours and probably have thier mom drop them off at the terminal. Sorry, the simple fact is a family cant be raised on 20K/yr. Just cant be done. I know...after a few years you may make 40K..but still...how good is that??? it $ucks. - and the lore would have worn off a long time back.

Even the best wife will get sick of it after a few years, especially since she already has it OK.

Just an Opinion. Dont do it.

 

[GLSoar]

Good Luck

Well,

I wen't back into flying at 38, from my experience "your" freight position could be gone 2 weeks after you get there or maybe not. At any rate aviation is UNSTABLE! Even if you get into the regionals you could have a job one day and be out on the street the next. If you are young then you can bear the ups and downs, but if you are older planning for the future is difficult. Don't get me wrong flying can be a great life, but if your making good money now and your older, keep aviation as your hobby you will enjoy it more and not starv.

That being said... I'm shure there are success stories out there.

GL

 

[340drvr]

yeah, what they said!

I'm sure you've thought of this, but I'd try to figure out how to keep the "day job" and fly contract stuff. Your profile says freelance CFI, so I assume you're already doing that part-time.
Air ambulance comes to mind, I worked for an outfit that had 7 days, 7 nights, 7 off, and nights were at home on call. A job like that might allow you to continue your consulting work while you log more time, and not have to live on ramen noodles.
And, not to pop your bubble or anything, but 135 freight requires 1200 hours unless it's one of those bullsit right-seat Navajo gigs, and they won't pay anywhere near $25-30K. Just another suggestion.....good luck.

 

[ellsworb]

guard

Hey Man,

If you are still young enough. . join the military. . if you can get through. . its SOOOOOOO much more stable that the airlines or freight world. the Ulitmate is if you can find a reserve or guard gig. Your current employer would have to hold that job for you when you return from training and tour. . First year kinda sucks. . only clear a little over 30K after Flight Pay and Housing Allowance.. But after that, its pretty nice. Also, you know you'll have a job tomorrow. .

Later

 

[willbav8r]

But.........

The crossroads can be ventured again. If you have the burning desire, passion, and ability to get a flying job, then you must. Simply put, there are too many Walter Mitty's, and even more "if only" types out there. No sense in you wondering what it would have been like if it will eat away at your mental capacity until you buy the farm.

So, my 0.02: You already know it is tough (brutal). But if there is any doubt, then there is no doubt.

IT and other professions will have you back should the need arise.

If you need all the incentive this thread and stories of others can give you, then methinks you aren't fully committed.......am I wrong?

And remember: life is not a dry rehearsal.

 

[350DRIVER]

I would tend to say follow your heart but also weigh all options before jumping ship from a job that is paying you 80K a year. It is much better to fly as a hobby and for "fun" versus having to do it to put food on the table and pay the bills. The industry is very unstable, very low paying for new guys, etc, etc, .... At 25 years of age even after everything that I have done thus far I still find myself questioning what kind of quality of life I would be enjoying if I would have pursued being a thoracic surgeon or a Cardiovascular Surgeon. It is fun but it is surely is not an easy ride and even when you make it to a certain point the negatives are still very evident and clear. If you have the opportunity to continue to advance and also be compensated that much more then I would seriously have many second thoughts about it if I were you. You can always instruct on the side, buy a plane, etc, etc, ...

I agree with outermarket, the romance is surely gone. This industry is not what it once was and probably will never be again.

good luck

3 5 0

 

[FlyingToIST]

Thanks a lot for all the replies. Believe it or not one of the reasons is the stability of the paycheck , even though it may be a low one, in the aviation industry. I just got a call yesterday and the client cancelled the contract. So, I am on the street now, maybe for 2 week, maybe for 6 months.

The total time on my profile is out of date, but it is about 100 hrs shy of the 135 mins. A friend called and offered me an interview on the spot for $2000/monthcargo gig.

Thanks to that IT contract work I got all my debt paid off, but the jos in IT are not that great either. I was unemployed for 1 year until I started to work again, so the uncerinity of the job market is here..

At 35, I am not shooting for majors, a regional captain job could be a place to hang the hat, while I may be doing something on the side (checkrides, maybe some IT) ..

I totaly agree with the high life style being gone. Regionals are doing major consolidation on the aviation industry. To give you an example I flew BNA-DEN on United 3 years ago on a 727, not the same flight is on a CRJ700 with 1/3 of the wages.

But you know, who ever made this thing so addictive, it lives and dies in my blood.. One plan was to establish a flight school, but insurance people kill that dream before even sees a light of the day..

At any rate, done with venting.. I really appreciate the feedback.

 

[46Driver]

This may be the only time I ever agree with 350 Driver on anything but he summed it up extremely well. The commercial aviation industry is so bad that I am working as hard as I can on a Master's Degree and looking for some type of management (non-airline) position. This industry does not have a bright future from a labor aspect - more a matter of too much competition and deregulation than any political aspect.

 

[bobbysamd]

GO TO THE INTERVIEW!! Read below and you'll see why . . .

At 35, I am not shooting for majors, a regional captain job could be a place to hang the hat, while I may be doing something on the side (checkrides, maybe some IT) ..

I was a year older than you when I decided to leave broadcasting for aviation. I never did it for the romance or the money (or lack thereof). I did it simply because I had loved airplanes and flying all my life and wanted a job that I would truly enjoy. I also learned at that time that a guy like me, not possessed of perfect vision and other semi-superhuman attributes heretofore accorded to pilots, could, too, be a professional pilot.

You really are at a crossroads, and it's because of your age. I'd get going and get to corporate, 135, or freight ASAP. Any of those categories will confer upon you legitimacy and improve your chances with the regionals. If you don't, by the time you hit 40 institutional forces over which you have no control will nip your aspirations in the bud. Take it from someone who knows. If you're forty, a career changer, and flight instructing is your only professional experience, regional H.R. will sh!tcan you.

Good luck with whatever you decide.

 

[spitfire1940]

???????????

bobbysamd,
i'm not knocking you, because i enjoy your posts and agree with lots of what you say, but .... why in the world would you want to go from 135 or corporate to a regional? i know guys at regionals who are trying to go corporate.

at age 35 maybe the best thing for FlyingtoIST is to make a career out of 135 or corporate, if he can find a good company.

regionals are the freakin-A kiss of death, unless you'e got a trust fund or mommy and daddy supporting you.

this is my point: at decent 135 or corporate place, you start out at 35k or something. why do that for a couple years and then go to a regional to make 18K??? at the regional, it takes probably three to four years to eke your way up to 45K, IF they don't furlough you and IF they don't go out of business and IF you don't mind risking your marriage because your wife doesn't think putting up with regional BS is worth the trouble.

Also, not many regionals are good enough to really be considered career choices: ACA? not any more. what have you got? comair, air wisconsin and maybe half a dozen others?

There's always going to be a downside to whatever job you have, in or out of aviation, but the deck is really stacked against you if you try the regionals over age 30 or at any time if you have a wife and family.

 

[FlyingToIST]

Spitfire,
Like the presvious poster who gave up broadcasting, my intention is to accomplish the lifelong dream of flying an airplane as a job, and get into even more, such as flight instructing, or even becoming an examiner.

I know regionals are not paying enough, but at least they fly a certain schedule.

I am well aware of the ad and the good regionals. I have a former CFI friend of mine in Skywest and he couldn't be happier. Mesa is out of consideration, ACA will not have a future as Independence Air; local option, Horizon is attractive as well..

But before those , I will try to get as much experience as possible that will translate into hours, and try to get the freight job while I can do something on the side.

Thankfully, my wife has a nice federal job that pays half decent and she has been supportive so far with me being away for 2-3 week , even though I bring in a fat paycheck.

Thanks for the insight from all of you.

 

[spitfire1940]

ToIST,
I hear you loud and clear. But my advice would be that as you look for a liveable wage in aviation, don't limit your search to the regionals.

I'm also a career change guy (like bobbysamd, I'm coming out of journalism) and when i went into this, I was totally focused on the commuters. Of course, this was before 9-11 and I was drinking the Kit Darby Kool-aid. I thought I'd spend no more than five years at the commuter level and then make it to a major where all my dreams would come true.

Anyway, along the way, I've discovered there are lots of cool things to do in aviation aside from the 121 carriers. I also like instructing and, strangely, my commitment to aviation has gotten deeper since I've given up hope of ever flying a wide body.

The funnest flying you can do is in a Piper Cub, or a glider or a Pitts, and I agree with the guys who recommend getting a good-paying non-aviation job so you can afford a cool plane to fly in your leisure time.

But I still can't rid myself of the dream of making a living flying ... whether its in a Cub a King Air or a 757.

Good luck.

 

[Meatwhistle]

Don't. You'll be labled a "retread" and none of the young punks at the regionals will give you the respect you deserve. Drink a beer, think logically about it, then think about all the peanut butter sandwiches you could ever eat, no jelly because you won't be able to afford that, then smile real big and thank yourself for not wasting the remaining years of your life.

 

[bobbysamd]

"Club" member

[W]hy in the world would you want to go from 135 or corporate to a regional? i know guys at regionals who are trying to go corporate.

at age 35 maybe the best thing for FlyingtoIST is to make a career out of 135 or corporate, if he can find a good company.

Everyone has different goals. Some people, like me, would want to fly for the regionals. I did because I had two friends who did. One of whom I had known most of my life. He had a strange line, where he was scheduled some days and sat reserve on others, but he made decent money and had a lot of time off.

Corporate where I was situated sixteen years ago was about impossible. This was in Oklahoma, where the economy had been down for several years and there was little corporate flying. There was plenty of regional hiring during that boom, more companies to contact, and an overall better way to go.

I suggested that he get to something beyond flight instructing ASAP because that would make him part of the club, and thereby improve his chances with the regionals. The older you are, the harder it is to go from flight instructing directly to the regionals.

There's always going to be a downside to whatever job you have, in or out of aviation, but the deck is really stacked against you if you try the regionals over age 30 or at any time if you have a wife and family.

(emphasis added)

Nice to see that others are beginning to "get it."

(Note to self: Send back the AARP app that came in the mail the other day.)

 

[Timebuilder]

Keep your job.

Keep your family.

Keep your sanity.

Keep your self respect.

Keep your income.

Buy a plane. Fly for fun.

As long as you can fly when you want to, to where you want to, and for how long, and according to your good judgement, why would you want to give up that autonomy for little money and no respect, so someone else can skim off the cream?

When you are twenty, you can take a chance on an industry that is on the whole unprofitable for investors and difficult for employees in the hopes that you will be one of the few that can eke out a living. From personal experience, you may be much better off as a recreational pilot.

 

[B-J-J Fighter]

I can relate to this thread. I graduated college and was pursuing the civvie route in aviation when my wife got pregnant. My wife was just finishing up college when she got pregnant. We were living paycheck to paycheck even before she got pregnant. The only way we were getting all the bills paid was due to my Dad and brother. About one year before I graduated college my dad took me out and bought me a 2000 Toyota Tacoma Extra Cab 4x4 for a graduation present. He paid for it with cash and gave it to me. Well I got the bright idea of getting a Honda S 2000, shortly after trading a truck that was about a year old in on a car with a nice little payment I found out my wife was pregnant. I decided to enter the Army. I applied to and was accepted to Army OCS on flight contract. I ended up herniating a disc in my lower back and was given a medical discharge and some money (not much).

We were just starting to get on our feet with the military pay when I was discharged. (Our son is a few months older than a year at this point. I start freaking out not know what I was going to do for a living when I get back. I was dumb and got an Aviation Mang degree so I really didn't have any specific skill like a nurse or teaching degree to fall back on. We got another apartment and I decide to take a job doing something I dabbled in while going to college, selling cars.

I knew I was half way good at it. I went at it half azz for the few months in college that I did it and made over a grand a week. I got what I thought was a descent offer, they offered me a fleet sales job. The 1st month I was in this job (the month when many fleet and Car rental companies turn there fleets I made 10K plus. I was ecstatic. This was the type of money in the past it took 6 months or so to make. That just happened to be a great month because I haven't made that much in a month again (I have been averaging around 7K or so. ) I have since bought a house and we are almost debt free besides the mortgage.

Sorry to bore you people with this long drawn out story, but I broke the news to my wife that I want to fly airplanes again for a living. I miss it very bad. I have a true passion for aviation and flying like nothing else in life. I don't know if my wife felt more like crying or slapping me when I told here this. I make good money in the job I'm doing now but I don't get the same job satisfaction or pleasure I did from flying. I have actually starting off by doing freelance instruction on the my days off and in the afternoons after work. I have managed to FINALLY get in a saving mode. I think I'm going to approach this whole flying thing by doing the freelance thing for a few years and socking some bucks away while staying at my current job. I should average about 25 hours per month doing the freelance thing. I will give the aviation industry a few years recover and see where the chips fall in a few years although my inclination would be to take the 1st full time flying job I'm offered. If I were single I would that but I have a family to support adn that's really not an option for me now.