Giving instruction in planes from flight schools you're not employed at

[flyf15]

Hey guys,

Wanted to ask what you think of giving instruction in planes from flight schools where you are not an employed instructor. It seems like most schools have an item in their rental agreement against this while some fail to mention it.

Also, does it make any difference if you're the one renting the aircraft or if the student is?

It is 100% legal as far as the FAA is concerned, but is it going to look bad at all down the road? What about at interviews?

Thanks much!

 

[Fly_Chick]

Would you be on a 1099 (Independent consultant for tax purposes) or would you student be paying you separately and no instruction money passes through the school?

 

[flyf15]

I am referring to the student or instructor simply renting the airplane as a renter from the school, and the instructor providing instruction without the school necessarily being in the loop.

 

[CA1900]

I doubt an interviewer would know or care one way or the other. The honest truth is that you were providing independent flight instruction in rental airplanes, rather than working for a flight school. They don't know at all what your agreement (or lack of one) was with the planes' owners. All they'll see at an interview is tail numbers.

The places I've worked all had a clause in the rental agreement agreeing that any flight instruction would be provided by the company's instructors. Some also have a clause that says that the renter must only occupy the left seat for the entire duration of the rental period.

The FAA doesn't really care one way or the other, provided the plane is getting its 100-hour inspections. The flight school may bar you from the premises if they get wind of it, but I don't think there's much they can do beyond that.

 

[Fly_Chick]

Here are a few thoughts.

One of you, either you or your student, will probably have to get checked out in the airplane. If you get checked out, most likely they will see that you are a CFI and perhaps ask your intentions. If it is your student who gets checked out, your student will have to have a Private certificate before they will let your student take the plane "alone".

If you rent the plane on a regular schedule from the flight school, the school might catch on that you are giving instruction. If you are considering doing this with multiple students the school with catch on that much quicker.

Another option is to talk to the flight school, and see if they will allow you to use the plane yourself it might be part of their insurance regulations that you cannot "rent" the plane then give instruction.

Is it possible for the student to address the school and state that they want you as the instructor? The school will gain revenue from the plane being rented that they otherwise would not have gotten if you went somewhere else.

Does your situation involve one student where there is some kind of history and you two would like to stick together (work together, family member, old college friends). The school may make an exception based on the circumstance or enlighten you further as to why the instructor has to be employed by the school.

You may consider approaching the flight school and have them take you on as a contract instructor, and they provide you a percentage of the "instructor" revenue they generate off of you. Are the current instructors on W4s or 1099s? If they are on 1099s, this will be much easier for you. That way you can choose your own schedule, and get a plane without worry.

If the school is worried about you taking on additional students while there are other instructors with seniority waiting for students, you may want to assure them that is not your intention.

Does your student want to get instruction from just you? Your student could approach the flight school saying they have an instructor from which they want to learn, yet neither of you has a plane. Have the student ask the school for a suggestion.

Keep in mind when it comes to the checkride, the flight school will most likely recognize the examiner, and the student may have to provide the aircraft maintenance logs to the examiner.

If you go through the school, the student then has additional resources available to help him/her learn (other students for discussions, books in the library, additional charts (sectionals, approach plates, A/FDs) from other geographic areas.

By "interview" I assume you are referring to Charter/135/121 interview. I do not think it will be looked at one way or another during a future interview. After all, you can give instruction to someone in his/her own aircraft and never go through a flight school.

If you are referring to an interview as a flight instructor, word will get around fast, especially if there are other flight schools on the airport or at nearby airports. Word travels fast.

 

[midlifeflyer]

I'm not sure exactly how it would come up at an interview, but consider:

When you give freelance instruction in an airplane that is operated by a flight school, you are taking business away from the CFIs who work there, are piggybacking on the FBO's maintenance, insurance, and operating costs while giving them nothing, and are potentially causing a problem with the FBOs insurance (a large part of pilot and instructor checkouts are insurance driven - if you get in an accident while giving instruction, the FBO coverage may be void), and, as you implied yourself, are breaching the rental agreement you made with the FBO.

Whether or not you think that's okay so long as you get away with it is up to you. I know that if I were interviewing someone and it came up, I'd probably suggest a career in politics rather than aviation.

 

[Fly_Chick]

Good point midlife, you also reminded me of something I should have mentioned in my previous post.

If you student goes through the flight school, your student then also has the added resource of the mechanics and maintenance hangers for additional learning.

You also have the added resource of other CFIs when the need arises.

 

[bigD]

Don't do this unless you have the blessing of the flight school and/or the instructors there. There's nothing illegal about it, and it's not going to be an issue at an interview. But people will know it's happening, and word will travel fast. Aviation is a small world.

Also, at least at the flight school I instructed at, the insurance policy specifically stated that only employees of the flight school can give dual in the planes. Obviously this isn't a problem if you don't bend metal, but do you think it's worth the risk?

 

[flyf15]

Good points all around, doesn't seem like its the best of ideas.

I wonder what schools around here allow you to get checked out as a contract instructor...hmm. Most schools seem to not want anything to do with it, for fear of you taking their students. I'm personally interested in just doing occasional work with friends, family, and previous students of mine... no new students, no rating bound students, etc. Anyone have any suggestions?

 

[weekendwarrior]

I had a recent situation similar to this. I'm a CFII on Military duty. Some guys wanted to get their private SEL, Ins, etc. I went to a flight school and asked them about it. I was sure to let them know that I didn't want any new students, and wouldn't hang around looking for business. This was to just take care of some friends in my unit. The initial reaction was positive. I didn't end up talking with the cheif pilot for other reasons, but the senior guy there didn't have any problem with it. Basically, you would probably need to be hired by them, but just to bring in your own students, not to get new students.

Don't try it unless you have approval. You will get blacklisted so quickly it will make your head spin. It ain't worth it. Flight school insurance is so insane now, any incident/accident would most likely put the school out of business when the insurance co would deny the claim because you were not an employee and were giving instruction.

 

[SIG600]

Think about it like this... would you as a CFI at a school be real happy if some dude came in and was taking money out of your pocket, giving instruction in your schools a/c? Not to mention that while you're using the a/c, thats time they CAN'T use them. You're double screwing them... great way to make a bad name for yourself REAL quick. I'd advise against it without explicit agreement from the school and the instructors trying to make a living.

 

[Wasted]

I'm personally interested in just doing occasional work with friends, family, and previous students of mine... no new students, no rating bound students, etc. Anyone have any suggestions?

Forget the schools. Look into any local podunk flying club, they're more likely to let an interloper like that in. Be frank with them.

 

[midlifeflyer]

I wonder what schools around here allow you to get checked out as a contract instructor...hmm.

Where is "here?" It makes a difference. Uneven application, interpretation, and enforcement of employment laws means that there are areas where CFIs are generally employees, others where they are generally independents, and other areas where you will find a mix.

The places that use independents, while they are still interested in protecting their own and have the same insurance issues, have a bit more flexibility (even if just because adding someone new doesn't add social security, unemployment, and other financial burdens) and may be willing to add a complete independent who is only bringing in his own students.

 

[A1FlyBoy]

All previous points aside, should an incident or accident take place the legal ramifications and legal fees will far outweigh any number of years of instruction/flight hours obtained from such an arrangement. I would not do it.

 

[check6]

At my flight school. . .we frown upon it. The instructor has to be checked out and will be responsible for big fatty deductible,and similarly, the student would have to be checked out, and would be responsible for the big fat deductible. Not only that, but any errors a student can make will be blamed upon none other than the CFI. A gray area in our policies, but generally we don't "check out" student pilots and we would catch on and put it to a halt.

 

[check6]

Define "contract instructor" ????

 

[JediNein]

We didn't care about freelance instructors at our school as long as they completed the checkout requirements (fill out the aircraft questions form, copies of everything, submit name of first born), and didn't crash the planes.

This year our insurance company inserted a line about "must be in the employ" and an aircraft manufacturer added a line about "must supervise all instruction" in our recognized instructor designations. The only other insurance option was "dual only" on anything other than the low performance trainer. Now we're required to have written rental agreements, written leaseback and aircraft management agreements, and the renters must have rental insurance that covers the deductible on all aircraft.

The insurance world changed when we started talking about new airplanes instead of 1970s versions.

Read the policies carefully before attempting instruction in an airplane not part of your school. You as CFI will be held as PIC and the insurance companies are looking for an easy way out. Don't assume that the 'open pilot' policy on a private owner's airplane will protect you. It provides for replacement of the hull of the airplane, not your passengers or your medical expenses.

Walk in with your eyes wide open and be prepared to say no if you have no coverage. One client, one BFR, one IPC, it's not worth it.

Fly SAFE!
Jedi Nein

 

[midlifeflyer]

Walk in with your eyes wide open and be prepared to say no if you have no coverage. One client, one BFR, one IPC, it's not worth it.

...and, with very rare exceptions, the only way for a CFI to have coverage is to buy a CFI policy. You =may= have coverage if you are on the approved CFI list at an FBO (rare, but it happens). But I can almost guarantee that you do =not= have coverage if you are teaching in someone's personal airplane. no matter whether you are an "open pilot" a "named pilot" or a "named additional insured" with or without a waiver of subrogation.

 

[midlifeflyer]

Define "contract instructor" ????

Generally means an instructor who works at an FBO or flight school as an independent contractor rather than as a direct employee of the company. The term "contract *****" is used in many occupations and professions with the same general meaning,

 

[rltoma]

If I found out someone was teaching out of the FBO I worked at, I'd turn your A** in to the owner of the FBO so fast your head would spin. Additionally, I would let all the local school's know who you were, and inform them of your attempt to "keep them out of the loop". Flight instructors who attempt this type of dishonesty need to have thier privilages revoked. Not only are you stealing work form the schools CFI's, but you are also breaking the FBO's policy and more than likely voiding thier insurance if something were to happen and you got caught. Why don't you just ask them to hire you so that you could use thier planes legitimately?