Getting out???

[Boxboy]

Yet, another fine idea by some fine field grader (McPeak clan?) looking to move up. These guys are no better than, in my humble opinion, airline upper management. It's sad to see history repeat itself for the worse.

 

[Hdawg]

By the way I left out "second reason"..."We need to increase the Nav bonus...."

 

[Jetdriver69]

Although I did 21 years between Army enlisted, warrant helo and AF jets it wasn't all good times. But it beats not having an income. Every single guy that got out from my last squadron before 9/11 have been furloughed and most of them have came back in to finish out 20 years. I'm about to be hired into a sweet corporate job but those are few and far between. I've been looking for the near perfect job for over two years and there really isn't a lot out there. There are a couple of guys in your same boat in my last squadron and they all decided to take the $ and security. Of course its your call, but to get out without a permanent job or retirement check is tough. You will burn through cash fast or will be forced to take a crappy job thats below your flying skills. The airlines might recover, but how may furloughed guys will come back before new guys are hired? I know with the AF you can have long separations from your family, but in some corporate jobs you can be gone half the month easy. Think long and hard about this before getting out.

 

[dgs]

I was one of the few guys who stayed in when all my classmates bailed in the hiring boom of the late 80's. I took a lot of heat from my buddies, but I still felt like I had things I wanted to do in the AF. The fact that I was the only pilot in my yeargroup at my base in my weapon system provided me some opportunities I never expected. I retired when I hit 20, got picked up by jetBlue and couldn't have been more fortunate. Here are a few things to consider:

1. Financial security. There's no subsitute for having an AF retirement. The AF also threw a lot of money at me to keep me in along the way--money that I put away for a rainy day. Now if anything happens, I know I can still make the house payment and put food on the table.

2. Devotion to duty. This is a touchy subject, so I hope I don't offend anybody here. You may have already had the opportunity to serve in a couple of our recent conflicts. My career gave me my share. After DESERT STORM, I felt I had filled my patriotism square and was ready to get out. I didn't realize then that my experience would be important later as I moved into leadership roles. I made some family sacrifices along the way, but I also think I made a difference in a lot of people's lives. Do you want to make a difference, or just survive the ride? I think my devotion to duty in the AF has translated well to jetBlue--where I do everything I can to make this company a success.

3. Timing. How can you predict what will be good or bad timing? Who knows? Most of my classmates are flying for Delta and now have a good 12-14 years of seniority. Most of them all still have jobs, but a lot of my other friends are on the street. I could never have imagined working for jetBlue in those days--it was still just a twinkle in David Neeleman's eyes. So despite all the naysayers and peer pressure to get out, I'm living the dream and couldn't be happier. You just never know what will happen, but I feel good things do come to those who serve.

Bottom line: It's a very personal decision that only you can make. I'm glad I stayed to 20. Things just happened to work out well for me. Nevertheless, it took a lot of sacrifice and was often a painful road to get here. If you are willing to make those sacrifices, you will be rewarded. Good luck with your decision.

 

[Goose17]

I feel your pain

I went through the same thought process when I separated in the summer of 01'. I got lucky as hell and ended up at FedEx. Here are some thoughts - many stated above as well.

When I got out, the industry was still pretty strong. I was separating from overseas and had ABSOLUTELY NO job prospects. I pinched some serious pennies built up the bank account, saluted smartly and bailed. I hit the ground running once back to the states. I did an airinc conference and interviews with 3 regionals. I got job offers from all 3 and I ALSO got some great interview experience. I was told to expect an interview at FedEx so I accepted a job offer with Northwest Airlink in Memphis to try to align the stars. I interviewed 2 weeks later and then got to await the news when Sept 11th hit. Long story short (not really), I got the job, but had to wait in a pool until the following year. I had no money coming in the front door and the stock market crash took a HUGE chunk out of the reserves. Did I mention that I had a pregnant wife (great timing) a 2 year old son and the only option for health care was to spend a butt load of $$ to extend my Tricare.

I collected some unemployment, got a job as a security manager and otherwise passed the time. FORTUNATELY I finally got in at FedEx in Jan 02. I am now in my second year and am in the green financially for the first time in a couple of years.

Would I do it all over again - you betcha! Would I do it today - not a chance! There are some airlines that are hiring, but the industry has been decimated! For every pilot job, there are 50 guys vying for it. Having ANY job these days is a feat in itself. I know tons of furloughed guys that are doing everything imaginable to pay the bills.

If faced with the same situation today, this would be MY gameplan:

1. Save money, save money, save money - it will give you options
2. Never give up an active duty job until you have a FIRM job offer from either a guard/reserve unit or another flying job such as a regional/national/major.
3. Be prepared to make 18K/year at a regional; see #1
4. If unable to secure a job on the outside, I would be real tempted to sign a 5 year bonus - nothing more. Take the $ from the bonus and start planning your escape 5 years down the road. Consider how close to retirement you will be in 5 years. It might be worth it to retire.

The decision is a BIG one. Choose carefully. There are pros and cons for staying in or getting out, but if you choose to get out, you loose ALL the protection of the military. It is kinda like moving away from mom and dad for the first time. You no longer have any of the help, services, or $$. Be prepared.

Goose17
FedEx

 

[Flyjets]

Reserve

Straight from the rumor mill (sort of):

If you decide to bail, a good place to look for a reserve job is in the F.R.E.D. world. Being a former airlifter, you should have no problem getting hired. In case some haven't heard, they are busting up Dover and sending about half of the FRED's to the reserves. The CP at the Dover reserve unit said that the Memphis Unit is in the process of standing up. The other two bases are rumored to be Wright-Patt and Martinsburg, WV (Air Guard). One of our CP's at the airline I flew for was the WV air guard commanding general until 9-11, then he went to play with the Afghanis. Before he left, he said that if they do turn Martinsburg into a FRED unit, then he will lose alot of people because the older heads will not want to re-train into another plane (currently Hercs).

I am still in Dela-where? after getting kicked out of the AF over the anthrax vaccine scandal three years ago. It has been all over the news here about the C-5's going to the reserves to be replaced by the -17's. Transitions are supposed to be complete by '08. One of the U.S. Senators from here has had a woody for the -17's for a long time and has been pushing hard to make it happen. That is the history behind it.

Food for thought for anyone interested.

 

[Gumbydammit]

Not to sound like a total idiot, but...what is a FRED?

 

[Flyjets]

Not to sound like a total idiot, but...what is a FRED?

FRED is a nickname for the C-5. It stands for F-ing Ridiculous Economic Disaster (referring to the maintenance nightmare that it is).

C-17 was known to us as Barney (Fred's little buddy). Some also called them Buddhas because thay are short, fat and everybody worships them.

 

[Gumbydammit]

Now THAT is funny...thanks!

 

[Steve]

Re: Reserve

Straight from the rumor mill (sort of):


I am still in Dela-where? after getting kicked out of the AF over the anthrax vaccine scandal three years ago.

.

Anthrax vaccine scandal? Whats that all about?

 

[Flyjets]

Anthrax Saga Way Too Long

Steve,

The anthrax scandal story is way too long type here. You can go to http://www.majorbates.com/ and get part of the story. Basic story is the company that was making the anthrax vaccine was not up to par and was making substandard vaccine. Mixing, temperature, and quality control issues were just a few of the 38 different FDA violations that the company received just before being shut down. They finally shut the facility down and made them clean it up. Unfortunately, some of us had to sacrifice careers to get enough press involved to get action. The irony in my case is that the day that I was kicked off base was the exact day that the letter came from the Sec. of Def's office that said the vaccine program would be slowed until they could get more FDA approved vaccine. Of course, the Pentagon would not admit they were wrong in their initial thinking (regardless of the evidence we put in front of them) and stop the action against us. They just labeled us as trouble makers and mavericks who didn't obey orders and kicked us out (I actually took three of the shots, by the way). If we were wrong, then why did they shut the facility down?? My squadron of 250 of the healthiest humans on the planet (military flight crews) had 15 people with autoimmune disorders after taking the shot. In perspective, one-half of one percent (approx) of the general population gets autoimmune disorders. We have our chief flight surgeon on video tape saying that if he had 5 people on base with autoimmune disorders, he would be jumping up and down trying to find out why. This was during a commanders call just after the base commander said no one else at Dover AFB would take the vaccine until he got some answers. That commander was fired the next day and sent to a cubby hole in the Pentagon. So, we had approximately 6% of the healthiest people in the world with autoimmune disorders and now all of the sudden (after the commander was fired) the chief flight surgeon is saying "they would have gotten sick anyway." hhhmmmm.... I personally saw one of the severe cases happen in front of me. We flew from Dover to Travis in the second week of Dec. '99. When we came back, one of our engineers took shot
four and was paralyzed by Christmas Day with an advanced stage of Guillion Barre Syndrome (autoimmune problem). That broke the camels back for me. I saw that happen with my own eyes. That, along with my own reactions and the other evidence, was enough to convince me. Here is the scandal part.... we have the evidence (documents) where one particular Admiral, who shall remain nameless for legal reasons, but who was chairman of the joint chiefs in a not-so-long ago decade was given a significant amount of stock in the company that made the vaccine because it was owned by a foreign entity. Since that foreign entity knew that our gov't could not contract with a foreign entity, that foreign entity gave the stock to mentioned Admiral (while still in command) and everything was wonderful in scandal land.

I said I wasn't going to get into this didn't I?... Well, Steve, this is a paragraph to the novel. Some people don't believe that any evidence that we presented was true (even the pictures, medical records, emails, and documents of money changing hands), and that we are trouble makers, etc. Some people took all six shots and never got more than a snotty nose. Some took two and died a few days later. You can go to the link above and go to the gov'ts site http://www.anthrax.mil and draw your own conclusion.

My apologies to the person who started this thread. I did not mean to hijack it.