Getting Closer to a TA at ASA!

[doh]

My opinion is as follows:

Crew scheduling will try every avenue to cover the flying. Not picking up open time at 150% punishes the poor soul who is finishing up a four day. He gets extended to cover the flying that the other pilot "boycotted". I believe the pilots are better served by letting those willing pick up the time without harrassment. Just my two cents. With a 96 hour line this month I am not able to pick up much of anything.

If they are building your scheds to 90+, you can be junior manned now but by the end of the month, they will run out of options. That is where the pressure comes from. You have got to have a lot of pilots who will have to have stuff dropped later if they are JMed today. 30 in 7 never sleeps.

 

[doh]

So then what did the sick out accomplish?

Cost Delta cash, got a last paid holiday at home with the family. Take your pick, but it does not hurt the Comair pilots. Their jobs are gone no matter what they do.

 

[shamrock]

I think if they build lines to 90+ hours, they will not be able to junior man very much. No prey if they aren't legal.

Legal, shmeegal, it hasn't stopped them before. Just watch for the "new" block times. How much can being extended to do a PVD turn really affect your 30/7 when it's only blocked at 1:20 each way?

 

[FmrFreightDog]

Legal, shmeegal, it hasn't stopped them before. Just watch for the "new" block times. How much can being extended to do a PVD turn really affect your 30/7 when it's only blocked at 1:20 each way?

That's not legal. It's the planned time on your release plus taxi time that counts. If scheduling gives you a 1:20 leg to PVD to keep you legal and then the time off the release puts it at 2:30 plus taxi then that's the time you need to use. If it makes you illegal, so be it. Scheduling can modify the block times, but it must be in accordance with the times reflected on the release.

 

[doh]

Legal, shmeegal, it hasn't stopped them before. Just watch for the "new" block times. How much can being extended to do a PVD turn really affect your 30/7 when it's only blocked at 1:20 each way?

And a call to the FSDO and your rep. would also be in order.

 

[SBD-2U3]

I guess this thread got highjacked...

 

[shamrock]

I was being sarcastic and did exaggerate my example but it was based in fact because I found myself in a similar situation a few years back.

I had flown a bunch in my previous block of reserve days and according to my records was only about an hour and 25 minutes short of the weekly buffer on my first day back on reserve. Scheduling called wanting me to DH to ROA, repo a plane to Macon, and take the shuttle back to ATL. I was told that the ROA-MCN leg was only blocked at 1:15, which would (surprise, surprise!) keep me legal. After I questioned the accuracy of the block time several times I was finally transferred to whoever creates the block times at ASA. Guess what, the real block time was 1:40. :angryfire

Supposedly Scheduling isn't doing this kind of thing anymore but I don't know for sure since I haven't been on reserve in a long time. What I do know is that I don't trust many of the (non-Crew) people at ASA as far as I can throw them and I can very easily see times being fudged and rules being bent to get things done.

And to get things back on track here, put me down for an "I'll believe it when I see it" when it comes to a TA.

 

[79%N1]

Oh boy, just got the CNC email. This is NOT good! No progress was made in this weeks sesson, and management is NOT willing to budge on scope, rates, retro or retirement! This is not the warm fuzzy ending many of you were expecting! This is only going to end badly! Mngmt IS NOT willing to negotiate on these monetary items.

 

[shamrock]

Jeez, I just read the email as well.

This is why I don't get my hopes up when things seem to be moving along in negotiations. I'd love to see Brian or Charlie in the crew lounge just so I could tell them personally what I think of the company's proposal.

I propose they kiss my @ss.

 

[Medeco]

Id say that based on staffing needs the ball is in our court to hold out.

The payrate and other lack of movement is a common negotiation posturing, did you really think managment was going to lay down and say well ok guys you can have everything your asking for and more?

If the mediator decides that we have few enough issues open that we are at an impass, then the 30 day will be granted, and managment will have no choice.

If Skywest Inc wants to do other flying then they need ASA.

Medeco

 

[AuburnRedneck9]

Your assessment is 100% correct.

Id say that based on staffing needs the ball is in our court to hold out.

The payrate and other lack of movement is a common negotiation posturing, did you really think managment was going to lay down and say well ok guys you can have everything your asking for and more?

If the mediator decides that we have few enough issues open that we are at an impass, then the 30 day will be granted, and managment will have no choice.

If Skywest Inc wants to do other flying then they need ASA.

Medeco

 

[zawillif]

Just read the email and pdf. Hopefully now the mediator will release us.

 

[Sinca3]

Things are progressing at the table. Don't screw things up with an illegal job action.

Irish...
If you haven't read your connection yet please do so, then come back and tell me what we should do to get this game moving?
I will say it again, since noone seems to listen at ASA......Don't do the company any favors:
1)NO OPEN TIME PICK UPS
2)NO CELL PHONES FOR MX/SCHEDULING/SERVICES etc etc
3)STOP STOP STOP DOING THE COMPANIES JOB FOR THEM.

We are never going to get a contract b/c of people that aren't willing to sacrifice......Sacrifice going home on time or sacrifice making that extra little $$.
So what if they have to extend people.....it will come back to bit them in the ass. So what if pax are late.....it will come back to bit them in the ass.
I don't understand why pilots here don't understand that we are killing ourselves. We can be proffesional and not do the company favors...open time. We can still be proffesional and not use our cell phones to make our job easier....all it does is facilitate a broken system. We can still be proffesional and not over look problems like services or MX. We are proffesionals and are treated like crap from managment because we allow it.
Nothing got done in these past negotiating sessions, only an hour at the table for 3 days worth of negotiating.....PATHETIC!
Our union can't do this on their own.
Maybe it's time to start being professionals and let managment run the airline....Not us.

 

[FmrFreightDog]

Irish...
If you haven't read your connection yet please do so, then come back and tell me what we should do to get this game moving?
I will say it again, since noone seems to listen at ASA......Don't do the company any favors:
1)NO OPEN TIME PICK UPS
2)NO CELL PHONES FOR MX/SCHEDULING/SERVICES etc etc
3)STOP STOP STOP DOING THE COMPANIES JOB FOR THEM.

We are never going to get a contract b/c of people that aren't willing to sacrifice......Sacrifice going home on time or sacrifice making that extra little $$.
So what if they have to extend people.....it will come back to bit them in the ass. So what if pax are late.....it will come back to bit them in the ass.
I don't understand why pilots here don't understand that we are killing ourselves. We can be proffesional and not do the company favors...open time. We can still be proffesional and not use our cell phones to make our job easier....all it does is facilitate a broken system. We can still be proffesional and not over look problems like services or MX. We are proffesionals and are treated like crap from managment because we allow it.
Nothing got done in these past negotiating sessions, only an hour at the table for 3 days worth of negotiating.....PATHETIC!
Our union can't do this on their own.
Maybe it's time to start being professionals and let managment run the airline....Not us.

Amen. Reading that connection was just one more shot in the gut. Looks like the best we can hope for at this point is a release. I'm finished even attempting to be a team player at this POS airline. "Staffing will be critical (for some unannounced reason). Every team member will be needed. In fact, we'll value you so much that we're willing to move our negotiating position from 'severely degrading your quality of life' to 'substantially degrading your quality of life'".

Screw you guys, I'm going home. You just lost every last bit of "extra mile" I was willing to give.

Incidentally, the manufacturer of our CRJ tires is on strike. Currently, ASA is pretty much out of tires. Make sure you write up those excessive nose wheel vibrations.

Congratulations ASA. I (and many others I'm sure) just went from annoyed but pretty much indifferent to annoyed with a chip on my shoulder. Believe me, I'll cost you far more than your precious two percent. F... this place.

 

[PalmettoPilot]

Anybody feel any different about Comair now?

Go ahead and play by all the rules, mgmt sure does.

Another pet peeve... where in our contract does it say that we have to "Call Scheduling" when requested? I believe we are only required to check our V files at the end of a trip. My cell phone is for personal calls only.

 

[John Pennekamp]

Things are progressing at the table. Don't screw things up with an illegal job action.

Say again Irish?

From the ASA Connection Negotiations Update
• CR7 rates the same as they previously proposed and still inadequate
• CR2 rates moved 1.2% to 2.8% depending on seniority and still inadequate
• 3.75 min day - no average
• No change to per diem proposal
• Days off proposal moved to ALPA’s 12 in 31 day month, 11 in a 30 day month and 11 all months for Reserve pilots
• Line check override increased to a value still below ALPA’s requirements
• Insufficient and inadequate scope language as previously proposed
• Profit Sharing plan tied to the implementation of PBS within 18 months DOS • No mention of any form of retro pay

 

[outtahere]

OK, I stand corrected. These A$$holes in the GO got me hopefull, but now I see the light. By the way, irreguardless of any movement I believe in following the contract to the letter untill the next contract is in place. Lets see how low we can make the numbers go this weekend in a perfectly legal way, just by doing only our jobs. I'd like to see low forty's on on-time arrivals. (Except on Monday, I go home on Monday.) just kidding. This could serve as a clear message to mgmt that if they don't move at the table, then we don't move on the line. So who's with me? Lets give a big fat FU to Bryan, Charlie, and Jerry!

 

[John Pennekamp]

So then what did the sick out accomplish?

About as much as your campaigning for the Jackson Coalition accomplished.

But that crushing defeat didn't slow down your asinine, misguided, anti-alpa rhetoric, did it? You have no credibility. Go back to Camp Parotthead and get drunk with your new buddies, LJ and JB. The ASA pilots have no use for you and your ilk anymore. We're moving forward. It's time to prepare ourselves for the strike.

 

[ASACRJFlyer]

Well said, FFD...

I, too, was starting to get a warm fuzzy that maybe negotiations were starting to move along, especially since the company was coming to us to ask for a little help with some tight scheduling issues. Then I see how far we still are apart and how little the company is willing to move... All I can say is choke on it, ASA.

When they start treating us like the "team members" they say we are and not some income statement expense item they have to minimize, they'll get the full benenfit of a professional willing to go that "extra mile" to get the job done on time in spite of all that obstacles that ASA's many short-comings presents.

For now, I'll treat passengers courteously (it's not their fault our management has no concept of customer service) fly the contract, turn off my cell phone and be happy with my 90 hour line until I too can contribute to ASA's staffing problems with a resignation letter when I leave for a company that gives a crap about it's people...

 

[601Pilot]

Umm... Are we all forgetting that was an illegal job action? Maybe that doesn't matter to you, but it does to me. I will strike if the proper channels are followed, but I refuse to do anything illegal, even if it is in my best interest.

Being principled means doing the right thing, even when it isn't in your best interest. Think of all of the families on Christmas day who weren't together due to an illegal labor action. Those people had done nothing wrong, and deserved a more professional pilot group. Anyone who called in sick that day (who wasn't actually sick) should be ashamed.

Why are you so afraid of an illegal job action? Are you afraid they will take away your 1991 Saturn?

 

[scott hall]

If pilots start calling in sick it will effect on time and completions which directly effect managment bonuses. I think the company may put a doctor on staff to evaluate each pilot who calls in sick. UP TO AND INCLUDING RECTAL EXAMS! Go ahead and try a sick out!

 

[Richard Gozinya]

If pilots start calling in sick it will effect on time and completions which directly effect managment bonuses. I think the company may put a doctor on staff to evaluate each pilot who calls in sick. UP TO AND INCLUDING RECTAL EXAMS! Go ahead and try a sick out!

Well, now you've done it. It is just a matter of time before this is commonplace with the male stew's. This should raise sick calls 10000%.

Dick

 

[Richard Gozinya]

Hey Scott, you didn't get a new seniority number?

Dick

 

[shamrock]

Deleted because Dick Gozinner beat me to it.

 

[Sinca3]

Why are you so afraid of an illegal job action??

Why is anyone affraid of an illegal job action? They would go after the union that everyone is loving to hate. The union would have to pay a huge fine. Maybe it is a good use of our dues?!?! What say ya'll?

 

[John Pennekamp]

Why is anyone affraid of an illegal job action? They would go after the union that everyone is loving to hate. The union would have to pay a huge fine. Maybe it is a good use of our dues?!?! What say ya'll?

I say anyone who does ASA any favors is a fool and anyone who picks up open time is a sellout.

 

[scott hall]

Look at all the extra money you could make by picking up open time at 150%. Please don't call in sick that just makes matters worse. You guys need to understand that it is difficult to run an airline. If you start calling in sick and not acceptting overtime Big D could get really pissed while they are trying to recover from bankruptcy. This place could melt down just like Comair. Thank God the pilots at ASA are not as militant as Comair pilots or we would have a problem on our hands. lets all say it together 2nd from the bottem!

 

[doh]

Look at all the extra money you could make by picking up open time at 150%. Please don't call in sick that just makes matters worse. You guys need to understand that it is difficult to run an airline. If you start calling in sick and not acceptting overtime Big D could get really pissed while they are trying to recover from bankruptcy. This place could melt down just like Comair. Thank God the pilots at ASA are not as militant as Comair pilots or we would have a problem on our hands. lets all say it together 2nd from the bottem!

Is this guy management? Or just the biggest tool on your property?uke: :uzi:

 

[shamrock]

Is this guy management? Or just the biggest tool on your property?uke: :uzi:

Director of Flight Ops.

I think there might be a few others at ASA who have him beat as biggest tool, but they don't post on FI.

 

[Oakum_Boy]

He can't spell either.