Getting ATP at work

[Q200_FO]

Anybody ever heard of getting your ATP rating combined with the line/pro check you have to do every year anyway? You fly your aircraft almost every day anyway so you're proficient in it. Need to save the $$$ on airplane rental if I can. Thanks .

 

[vclean]

The checkairman giving the line-check or proficiency check (121.441) doesn't need to be a FAA DE, therefore they could not issue a certificate or rating. In any case a 8710 would be required with a signature from the instructor recommending you for the checkride (cannot be the same person conducting the test). The instructor must have also given you instruction within the past 60 (or is it 30, it has been a while) days for the purpose of the certificate or rating being sought.

It would be nice to save a few bucks and have the company pay for it, but they will only when they have to.

 

[WhiteCloud]

You don't neccesarily need a sign off for the ATP. As a Commercial Pilot you can reccomend yourself. If you wish to retest with in 90 (?) days you need a sign off. You'll get it when you upgrade to Captain or get a type rating so if either of those items are in the future why spend the money yourself? For details check FAA.gov. Publication 61-65D.

 

[FSB99]

i know a guy or two who attempted to talk their check airman into doing this, during their pc's. not sure if it's just our company policy, or the checkairman (understandably) not wanting to do so, but none of them got their wish.
but as stated above, save your money, get the atp with your upgrade. unless of course, you are needing the atp for a different job opportunity. then, most likely, you'll have to spend the cash for it yourself.

 

[cocknbull]

If the aircraft you do your checkride in requiers a type rating then you need an endorsement regardless.

 

[cdog]

Your company ck airman may be a TCE (training center evaluator). That would give him authorization to issue an ATP as long as you are doing a type rating ride.

 

[sstearns2]

....

Wouldn't it be nice if everyone just declared the ATP rating redundant and got rid of it. It's just absurd to say that someone has 1000+ hours of large, turbine, 121 time, but you have to go somewhere and take a checkride in a duchess before your qualified to upgrade. It's stupid.

I'm dreading preparing for the ATP written. Why can't a part 121 (or 135 for that matter) Captain upgrade class take the place of the ATP written?

Scott

 

[eddie]

sstearns2- doesn't your company include the ATP with your upgrade? It's the same as the type ride, the only thing I had to add to my checkride was an inflight restart.

 

[sstearns2]

Eddie,

>sstearns2- doesn't your company include the ATP with your upgrade? >It's the same as the type ride, the only thing I had to add to my >checkride was an inflight restart.

My point exactly! Why the heck do we (pilots/FAA) bother having an ATP rating? I'm mostly thinking of the poor, starving flight instructors that have to cough up another $300 plus twin rental to get a useless rating in order to be 'competitive'.

Further more, why do we bother having a commercail rating? It's equally useless, everyone agrees it's useless, so why not drop it and save all the aspiring pilots out there a bunch of money? If someone has 250+ hours just let them have the privilges of a commercail pilot, which means they can tow banners or gliders which is probably what they did to get the 250 hours anyway.

Oh yeah, yes, at skywest I can get my ATP as part of the type ride. It's just a box that needs to be checked on the form from what I'm told. But I do get to pay AllATPs $300 to brainwash me adequately enough to pass the written, so I'll be 'qualified' to goto the class where I'll actually learn what I need to know to be captain. It's silly.

OK, I'm done ranting for now.

Scott

 

[WhiteCloud]

Further more, why do we bother having a commercail rating? It's equally useless, everyone agrees it's useless, so why not drop it and save all the aspiring pilots out there a bunch of money? If someone has 250+ hours just let them have the privilges of a commercail pilot, which means they can tow banners or gliders which is probably what they did to get the 250 hours anyway.

It's a matter of standards. Sure, a lot of the Commercial Pilot material is identical to the Private Pilot stuff, but the standard of expected performance is much higher. The ATP sets a higher standard of performance than the Commercial and insures that someone with at least 1500 or so hours and is 23 years of age is a Captain in 121 operations. Due to the market, most pilots have much more than that by the time they get the opportunity to fly in that capacity so getting the ATP is one way of setting your resume apart from the crowd of Commercial pilots. So is getting a type rating that you may never use. It means you have prepared yourself beyond what a typical Commercial pilot does and are potentially easier to train since you've been through the process before.

 

[sstearns2]

Hi Ziggy,

Thanks for replying to my ranting post. Now I have a reason to rant futher.

>It's a matter of standards. Sure, a lot of the Commercial Pilot material is >identical to the Private Pilot stuff, but the standard of expected >performance is much higher.

OK maybe, but the rating is meaningless and all 'commercail' pilot jobs are going to require an aircraft and company specific training program that goes way beyond doing steep turns in a 172RG.

>The ATP sets a higher standard of performance than the Commercial >and insures that someone with at least 1500 or so hours and is 23 >years of age is a Captain in 121 operations.

OK, so drop the rating, and just require that 121 captains meet the requirments for the rating previously known as the ATP. There's no way anyone is even getting to the right seat in the 121 world without flying to 'ATP standards'.

>Due to the market, most pilots have much more than that by the time >they get the opportunity to fly in that capacity so getting the ATP is one >way of setting your resume apart from the crowd of Commercial pilots. >So is getting a type rating that you may never use. It means you have >prepared yourself beyond what a typical Commercial pilot does and are >potentially easier to train since you've been through the process before.

Why don't we set resumes apart by available credit card debt? That way the interviewers could see who could 'afford' to get the useless ratings and type ratings and give them credit for it without the applicant having to go thousands deeper in debt.

Scott

 

[trans2fly]

Hey Scott-

While I can appreciate your point of view on the issue, I'd just like to respectfully point out that it isn't to terribly expensive to get the ATP. My buddy did it with an investment of $1400, including the written and checkride fees. That can be saved over several months of most people's income or paid back in the same time frame. He could have done it cheaper, but elected to go to one of those do-it-in-3-days kind of places.

I saw you were a CFI. Then you should know that there are some pilots who should NOT get a commercial/ATP license or equivalent. They just don't have what it takes. There must be standards to weed out those who just shouldn't be in command of the controls with my family on board. Know what I mean? Furthermore, I don't believe that this type of information can be gleaned during a 121 interview. The licenses and ratings are a necessary tool that is used prior to a pilot candidate knocking on the door.

So hang tough, you'll upgrade soon enough. Good luck.

 

[cdog]

sstears2:
If you're worried about the ATP written, preparing for a 121 capt. upgrade will give you a heart attack. If you need the ATP test brainwashed into your head, you may have to find a more menial occupation. Quit whining!

 

[prodigal]

ATP

Besides flying to ATP standards for the certificate, don't forget the good moral character requirement!

 

[bobbysamd]

Anybody ever heard of getting your ATP rating combined with the line/pro check you have to do every year anyway? You fly your aircraft almost every day anyway so you're proficient in it. Need to save the $$$ on airplane rental if I can. Thanks .

My guess would be that your company will do it for you only at upgrade time. Your company has no need for you to be an ATP until it upgrades you to Captain.

On the other hand, while I appreciate your concern for cost, why not do it yourself? You are probably sharp enough from your day-to-day flying that a little sim brushup and a productive dual flight would be all the flight prep you need. And, you need not get the ATP in a twin. You can get an ATP in a simple single and then state truthfully that you hold an Airline Transport Pilot certificate. Moreover, all your expenses for getting an ATP would be tax-deductable.

Give it some thought. Good luck with your ATP practical.

 

[sstearns2]

....

Hello all,

Thanks for replying.

If you're worried about the ATP written, preparing for a 121 capt. upgrade will give you a heart attack. If you need the ATP test brainwashed into your head, you may have to find a more menial occupation. Quit whining!

I'm not worried about the ATP written in the slightest. I just think it's a needless waste of time and money, that's all. I'm not whinning, if fact my posts were not intended to be about me personally, but about the system in general. I think the term brainwashing is a very good description of the methods used by the quick study schools.

Besides flying to ATP standards for the certificate, don't forget the good moral character requirement!

Indeed! I've managed to keep them in the dark to this point...

I'd just like to respectfully point out that it isn't to terribly expensive to get the ATP. My buddy did it with an investment of $1400, including the written and checkride fees.

I guess we have differnet views as to what terribly expensive is. I mean it sounds like your buddy got a good deal, but it's still a lot of money.

I saw you were a CFI. Then you should know that there are some pilots who should NOT get a commercial/ATP license or equivalent. They just don't have what it takes. There must be standards to weed out those who just shouldn't be in command of the controls with my family on board. Know what I mean?

Yes, I know exactly what you mean. The problem is that most of those people are not generally weeded out. If anyone goes to one of the 3 day schools and forks over 2 grand, they will walk out with their comm or ATP (or any other rating for that matter). The people that are weeded out are the otherwise good solid pilots that get bogged down in debt trying to finance useless ratings or the CFI with great skills and attitude that doesn't get the airline job because they couldn't cough up another $1400+ for an ATP.

Q200_FO - Sorry for twisting your post like this.

Scott

 

[WhiteCloud]

Why don't we set resumes apart by available credit card debt? That way the interviewers could see who could 'afford' to get the useless ratings and type ratings and give them credit for it without the applicant having to go thousands deeper in debt.
Scott

Scott, I feel your pain. It's frustrating to get qualified and certified to do a job and then have those qualifications minimized by a job market that doesn't show proper respect for those qualifications. Some of the guys I work with (in my part time job outside of aviation) do not have college degrees but do a great job at what they do. Maybe better than some guys who went to college and got qualified and certified to do similar work. The thing is though that without some certification qualifications and standards there would be no way to insure that people met at least some level of competence in their field. I know some Private pilots that display exceptional abilities and some ATP's that don't. I know some guys with no college that outperform guys with PHD's. That is usually the exception though. If you get the ATP you won't have to explain why you don't have it and have to waste time explaining to your interviewer that your really just as good as one and that it isn't really important anyway.

 

[SizzleChest]

Hey Guys keep this in mind. If your company does not allow you to circle in less than VFR or something and you type/ATP in the same ride you will carry a restriction on your ATP for circling in VFR only! My company put out a SOP of sorts that limited circling to 1000/3 or better so instead of getting a type that was limited to circling in VFR (guys who already had ATP cert.) those who typed/ATPd simult. carry that restriction on the ATP until they go with FAA or someone and circle in less than 1000/3 and therefore remove the restriction. Be sure to verify this with your POI/APD/TCE before the ride so you don't get screwed.