general aviation pilots

[cforst513]

This is a question aimed mostly at the general aviation guys and gals out there. I read in a magazine, probably flying, that an author had some sort of failure, maybe electrical, during a flight and lost his instruments in IFR conditions. Luckily he had a handheld NAV/COM in his bag and he finished the flight just fine.

How many of you carry an extra NAV/COM in your flight bag? I will begin my training soon, and I was thinking about getting one, not only for the safety margin, but to also listen to while I am bored and spending my final college days posting on this site. I thought about just getting a scanner, but I would like to maybe just plan ahead and get a NAV/COM so I can have it for the future.

How many of you bring a handheld along with you on your flights? Where did you purchase them? The only reference I have is in a Sporty's catalog and on their website. They range in price from $300 to over $500 for the waterproof ones. Sporty's model is $299 and runs on 8 AA batteries. Good purchase or should I shop elsewhere? Ebay, perhaps?

 

[TrafficInSight]

I had three alternator failures within a month, got the sporty's handheld with an extra battery pack and a headset adapter. Haven't had a failure since

 

[TDTURBO]

Wait until Oshkosh to buy one if you can, you will save alot of money. I have an Icom A23 since I don't care to deal with lost comm proceedures if I don't have too.

 

[minitour]

I've been thinking of getting one. The debate of GPS or Handheld Com.

There are procedures to follow if you do lose communications. If you lost all electrical in IFR and couldn't navigate as well as communicate...squawk 7700, climb and use some dead reckoning skills to get you to VFR weather.

I guess that's where I'm having a hard time justifying it.

I'm sure after the first time I lose coms in IMC with a student I'll be ordering one online, but for now I'm keeping the money.

-mini

 

[LearLove]

For private pilot stuff its not really needed. If you lose you radio in VFR (visual flight rules, what you will be flying under) there are other procedures (you will learn this) that you do that do not require a radio. Save your $$ for now and use it for flight time.

To do your Private the only stuff you will need is:

to start after about 5 hours flight time:

-$30 backpack to put stuff (books) in
-POH for your training plane, about 10-15 bucks
-$15 FAR/AIM - regs and flying guidelines
-$16 FAA/ASA Airplane Flying Handbook - text that covers all subjects you need to be a PPL and more
-$16 Gleim or ASA (I prefer Gleim) Private Pilot Written Exam Handbook
-$5 ASA - Private Pilot Pratical Test Standards - outline of everything you will be tested on for your PPL, kind of like Cliff's Notes.
-$8 fuel tank sump/sampler thingy (most school planes have them in the -seatback pocket)
-$8 Flashlight for night flying - A reg C or D cell will do. Don't worry about needing a red lens either.
-$2 notebook
- many pens and penciles
-small towel in backpack, you never know when you need to clean something wipe oil/avgas from hands after preflight
- small/med plastic bag, never know if you'll get sick

after you solo when doing x-countries:

-$1.99 clipboard to clip chart too (not a knee board) get it at staples or office max
-$1.00 ruler - for VFR planning
-$1.00 plastic protractor for VFR planning
-$10 E6B for VFR planning
- small, simple (addition, sub,mult,division) calculator, if you don't like doing math in your head or with the E6B
- $10-25 in sectional charts and facilities directory

There you have it boys and girls, everything you need to get your PPL. About 110-120 in books and equip and another 30-40 in x-country stuff. So about 150 bucks total (give or take a few).

Optional:
$15 FAA/ASA Aviation WX or Aviation WX services book - not really needed as most of info in here is also in the "Airplane Flying Handbook"

Note: Some instructors may prefer Jepps or Rod's books instead of the ASA/FAA "Airplane Flying Handbook". Hey whatever works but the tried and true most excepted standard is the "Airplane Flying Handbook", its alittle dry compared to Rod's and others but its worked for most of us around here way before the others came along.

Also I left out the cost of a headset as most FBO's lend a set out for PPL guys. Or like many of us learned just use the handmike and speaker. O my gosh, did he just say that? Dread the thought. Or just shut the dam radio off you don't need it anyway.

If you must get a headset the DC H10-30 is fine. The H10-30 is bomb proof. the one I have was given to me when I started my Inst. training when I was a senior in HS. The FBO was changing hands and the lady who was selling the flight school (I worked line for her) gave me the "loner" headset that was used for atleast 8 years prior to me getting it. That was 1993 so 12+8 is 20 years and counting on my H10-30. I see they go for 220-250 today.

Hope it helps, don't waste your money on usless flying junk from sportys or elsewhere. Put it twards flight time and your education and beer.

Good Luck

Forgot - $15 pair of foggles/hood - get your own you'll need them.

 

[Ralgha]

Fook the handheld GPS, I'd rather be able to talk.

 

[JB74]

I bought an Icom A-21 Nav/Com used from a guy at the FBO. Came with the headset adapter and charger for only $150. It is an older model, but works great and is perfect for getting clearances and atis.

If you are going to get one, get a nav/com because chances are if you lose your radios, you are going to lose nav radios also.

 

[DaveJ]

I bought an Icom right after I had an alternator failure at night and failed to notice it until the com radio quit working. It's nice to have a backup if you fly IMC. It's also useful to call the fuel truck without having to drain the a/c battery.

 

[mattpilot]

Fook the handheld GPS, I'd rather be able to talk.

I don't know.... my handheld GPS served me quite well during marginal WX

 

[FracCapt]

There are procedures to follow if you do lose communications. If you lost all electrical in IFR and couldn't navigate as well as communicate...squawk 7700, climb and use some dead reckoning skills to get you to VFR weather.

If you lose all electrical....squawk whatever you want, nobody will see it. The transponder is, of course, electrical - and, BTW, is the largest power draw in most small planes. If you lose the alternator in a single, turn the transponder off and you're battery will last much longer. Let ATC know you're going to do this, if you're talking to them. Just remember, though....if you're outside a 'mode C' veil, and plan to return into it....you have to have ATC permission to do so without the transponder...unless you declare an emergency, that is.

As for a handlheld transceiver....I used to have one(many years ago, an old Bendix/King) because I flew an aircraft with no electrical system fairly often. I prefered to use the radio when in the airport area, because some of those uncontrolled fields can get pretty busy....so I bought one. I got mine used, for half of what I would've paid new. I then sold it years later for half of what I paid for it. Check eBay(the eBay motors section, then Aviation under Parts and Accessories)...I just did a search for 'transceivers' and found 37 listed.

 

[Jmmccutc]

i have a Sporty's SP200, christmas gift from my grandparents a few years back. My pap got it figuring i'd use it mostly to listen at airshows, but i did use it in the actual plane once...i was flying a 152 with a single VOR to CMH with another pilot about 2 years ago, and we used it to cross check our position because it has a built in CDI...that was kind of neat, but i've never had to use it for lost comm...

 

[Pilot124]

If you lose comm....You can always 7700 and listen over the nearest VOR.

 

[JimNtexas]

Unless you wire up an outside antenna nobody will hear your handheld communications radio more than a few miles away.

If you have to choose one, get a hand held gps. It will save your a$$ if you lose electricals at night, or just get disoriented.

With the death penality in effect for putting an inadvertant wingtip into a TFR or Class B these days we can't afford to fly our bugsmashers without a good gps.

 

[FracCapt]

If you lose comm....You can always 7700 and listen over the nearest VOR.

First of all....if you lose comm, try using the code that is DESIGNATED for lost comm....7600. In any case, whatever you squawk, chances are they're not gonna try to contact you over any VOR unless you're in the middle of BFE, with one controller on duty, and one airplane(you) in his airspace. Otherwise, he has better things to do..

If you lose comm, squawk 7600 and land at the nearest uncontrolled field, if possible.

 

[paulsalem]

I always carry one at night VFR or IFR. If I lost all electrical power I want a way to turn on the lights at a non-towered field.

 

[FlyingBuckI]

aviate, navigate, communicate.

I always carry my GPS and transceiver with me on x-c's and/or during IFR. They've saved me a few times, especially in "heavy" traffic areas like atl/dfw/socal.

Planes are like pets -- obedient, but sometimes unpredictable. Better to be prepared than scared and confused.

practicing/reviewing emergency situations never hurts either

 

[TrafficInSight]

Unless you wire up an outside antenna nobody will hear your handheld communications radio more than a few miles away.

If you have to choose one, get a hand held gps. It will save your a$$ if you lose electricals at night, or just get disoriented.

With the death penality in effect for putting an inadvertant wingtip into a TFR or Class B these days we can't afford to fly our bugsmashers without a good gps.

I have been able to use mine with no problem for all the "normal" tower communication coming into my home field so while I think an external handheld antenna hookup would be a bonus I don't think it's absolutely necessary.

 

[wrxpilot]

Seems like a good idea to have a transceiver... I only have 80 some hours, but I've already had a total electrical failure (first solo XC), and numerous alt and circuit breaker resets. This is in both the vintage and newer trainers I've been in. Like others have said you can always land at a non-towered field or do the light signals thing. But OTOH it's pretty busy in some areas (like here in South FL), and I'd defnitely prefer to let people know what's going on. Particularly since the transponder isn't working at that point.

Do the Navs work that well on most transceivers? I bought an Icom awhile back, but have heard the Navs don't work that well. For VFR, I'd rather have an extra radio than a GPS. Probably different situation for IFR though.

 

[s0ldier93]

I got a Lowrance iFinder (GPS) for $80. Not an aviation GPS, but it does have an SD card slot for loading user definded waypoints. 10 minutes of searching in the WWW and I found a nicely arranged list of airports, seperated by state, and ready to be loaded. I loaded airports and navaids for my state and just airports for the surrounding states. That plus a nice VFR chart and I'm set. . . . . until I get a nice backup radio.

 

[mcjohn]

I got that $299 Sporty's deal. You can navigate with VOR's or supposedly fly a LOC approach. I'm curious if it's possible to communicate through the thing while using it to navigate. I believe you have to press the 'last freq. button' to toggle between the com and nav. freqs so you would have an intermittent CDI. I'm very curious about the accuracy of the thing. I'll fly my first X-C with it on Thursday and try to test the accuracy.

I was wondering this about the thing as well. How easy would it be for some lunatic to get one and start calling false vectors out to aircraft and get people killed?

 

[VNugget]

Easy. It's happened, and there was even an airport with a NOTAM about it.

 

[minitour]

Easy. It's happened, and there was even an airport with a NOTAM about it.

Didn't they catch some guy that stood outside and was calling for go-arounds?

-mini

 

[qmaster3]

I got a Lowrance iFinder (GPS) for $80. Not an aviation GPS, but it does have an SD card slot for loading user definded waypoints. 10 minutes of searching in the WWW and I found a nicely arranged list of airports, seperated by state, and ready to be loaded. I loaded airports and navaids for my state and just airports for the surrounding states. That plus a nice VFR chart and I'm set. . . . . until I get a nice backup radio.

YOU SUCK

I was going to go that route. Thinking it might not work well in the air. My choice was the Airmap 100 for $300.

 

[GAcfi]

Oshkosh/Sun-n-fun

If you can get to Oshkosh or Sun-n-fun that is when to buy handhelds. I got an Icom A-23 (comm/nav) for $349, normally $399. Then there was a 50.00 dollar OSh rebate so it was $289.00! They also were giving away free battery packs that were a $40 value. Look at the acc. you get with the Icom compared to the Sporty's. Icom is a little more but comes with a charger, belt clip, headset adaptor, all these are bought separately with the sportys.

I wouldn't get a transceiver for primary training, however once you get the instrument ticket and you are taking trips filing IFR, get a transceiver. If you can't go yourself, find someone going to these fly-in events and get them to buy it for you!

 

[mcjohn]

Didn't they catch some guy that stood outside and was calling for go-arounds?

-mini

I'm surprised they could easily catch someone doing that. Tall buildings, mountains, how'd they track em down? It seems like it could be a real problem. I guess the real ATC could step on their signal and over ride it. But what if ATC couldn't here the impersonators transmission and was caught off-guard?

 

[qmaster3]

I'm surprised they could easily catch someone doing that. Tall buildings, mountains, how'd they track em down?

Homing

 

[s0ldier93]

YOU SUCK

I was going to go that route. Thinking it might not work well in the air. My choice was the Airmap 100 for $300.

Given that it shows interstates and bodies of water anyway is a big help. I can say that I'm glad the Ebay snipers kept outbidding me on the nice aviation ones before I found this one. I'm sure I'll upgrade someday. But for now, this one is fine for a little PPL such as myself.

 

[minitour]

I'm surprised they could easily catch someone doing that. Tall buildings, mountains, how'd they track em down? It seems like it could be a real problem. I guess the real ATC could step on their signal and over ride it. But what if ATC couldn't here the impersonators transmission and was caught off-guard?

Couldn't tell you. I know I remember reading it somewhere though. I'll see if I can find the article and post the linkey.

-mini

 

[qmaster3]

I had to snipe on ebay to get mine.

Thought I knew sOLDIER93 from somewhere. Heck, a good AT can rig anything up. Remember Mike, he's working over at Chesapeake Bay Helicopters now. Doing a lot better than the "other place" He's trying to tell me that Hellos are SAFE...they are if I am not flying Hope things are going well for ya down there. I know the weather has to be better!

Take Care,

 

[qmaster3]

Couldn't tell you. I know I remember reading it somewhere though. I'll see if I can find the article and post the linkey.

-mini

Mini I would tell you, but then I would have to kill ya! J/K I am thinking on the lines of Radio Direction Finder.