Gen. Petraeus p*sses off the AF

[DaveGriffin]

I am not upset about it at all.

I am just sick of Dave Griffin (the original poster) who:

1. is not a pilot
2. his only claim to fame is being a Navy guy who jumped out of USAF planes
3. constantly claims Navy superiority with statements of hyperbole based on fiction


Rant off

learhercjay,

So only pilots can criticize the AF? That fits in perfectly with the AF's "air-to-air is the only thing that means sh*t" reputation.

I have great respect for the non-fighter guys in the AF, especially those who support the guys on the ground. They do a superb job day-in and day-out. Combat Talon drivers are great guys, especially when they put their payload on the right DZ.

learhercjay,

So only pilots can criticize the AF? That fits in perfectly with the AF's "air-to-air is the only thing thing that means sh*t" reputation.

I have great respect for the non-fighter guys in the AF, especially those who support the guys on the ground. They do a superb job day-in and day-out. Combat Talon drivers are great guys, especially when they put their payload on the right DZ.

Unfortunately it's still the fighter guys that run the AF and are big time conflicted about the "should we be structured to fight this war or the next war" issue.

If it wasn't for the development of precision guided weapons, your CAS capabilities would really be limited. That alone has kept you in the game and allowed you to use your F-15s and F-16s.

Sec. Gates brought the AF into the current war a year back when he fired your top two guys. That attitude adjustment seemed to work somewhat; you guys are now working on developing 100 el-cheapo, light-fighters for COIN Ops. Way to go; it can't happen fast enough.

But your long standing reputation as pissy, non-team players focused only on air-to-air will be a long time in going away.

And yes, carrier pilots, Navy and Marine, are way better than AF pilots.

 

[PBRstreetgang]

i say we start pulling out ac-130 missions so when army and marines call for help we wont be there. make fun of the air force then. and start pulling c-17 missions so you dont get your tanks. or start pulling out a-10 missions so those hodgies in front of you keep shooting at your ass....

Aren't most of the A-10s Guard? I think the proper term is Hajii
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hajji
HAHA
PBR

 

[pilotyip]

How come all these USAF jets are designated "F" when their mission is almost all atttack? Wasn't the F-22 given a new designation of the F/A-22 so it would not looked on as a pure fighter. Kinda following the Navy's lead with the F/A-18?

 

[Bjammin]

My GOD!!! I cannot believe the whining on this thing! I worked in a joint command for years, did like 30 Red/Green flags, and had Airforce ECMO's in my crew. All great guys! We would rib each other to death and battle at the bar every chance we got. Know one that is worth a s--- would have any issue with any "Joke" from any higher up. I have heard just about Navy bashing joke there is and have given out many, many Airforce bashing comments all in GOOD FUN!!!!!

Let'd get back to reality people.

 

[ChinaClipper]

Lets settle this....

once and for all! Who has the better golf courses??? Huh? Huh?

 

[Bjammin]

Yea, but when you have to golf with an ascot it somewhat takes away from the scenery.

 

[learherkjay]

Dear Dave Griffin,

There was nothing in my posts about AF vs. Navy. My post wasn't about the article at all, I personally thought it was funny. I suppose my post has been building in relation to all of the other crap you spew.

FWIW, I flew heavies (just look at my profile) and had folks from all services jump out of the back of my planes and I have carried folks of all services to many parts of the world, and I have trained Navy pilots how to fly...

You are missing the point of my post - I am all for services getting along. In fact, I highly respect the Navy and other services. We are all on the same team and I like good-natured ribbing.

I believe, in reading your posts over the years that you do not feel the same. Your posts are not good-natured ribbing, you just talk nonsense and you have a chip on your shoulder about the Air Force.

Your reply is laughable, but proves my point. You post about how much the Air Force sucks - not much team playing coming from your mouth is there?

I don't pretend to know everything, but you seem to think you have it all figured out. The AF and the Navy have good pilots, trying to define one as better than the other is always biased opinion based on one's background. While it is fun to poke at each other, I get the impression you just wish the AF would go away. Don't know where that attitude started but it gets old.

Bottomline: your posts make you look bad, if I am reading you wrong than by all means explain it to me, I don't like virtual fights on the web..

 

[DaveGriffin]

Dear Dave Griffin,

There was nothing in my posts about AF vs. Navy. My post wasn't about the article at all, I personally thought it was funny. I suppose my post has been building in relation to all of the other crap you spew.

FWIW, I flew heavies (just look at my profile) and had folks from all services jump out of the back of my planes and I have carried folks of all services to many parts of the world, and I have trained Navy pilots how to fly...

You are missing the point of my post - I am all for services getting along. In fact, I highly respect the Navy and other services. We are all on the same team and I like good-natured ribbing.

I believe, in reading your posts over the years that you do not feel the same. Your posts are not good-natured ribbing, you just talk nonsense and you have a chip on your shoulder about the Air Force.

Your reply is laughable, but proves my point. You post about how much the Air Force sucks - not much team playing coming from your mouth is there?

I don't pretend to know everything, but you seem to think you have it all figured out. The AF and the Navy have good pilots, trying to define one as better than the other is always biased opinion based on one's background. While it is fun to poke at each other, I get the impression you just wish the AF would go away. Don't know where that attitude started but it gets old.

Bottomline: your posts make you look bad, if I am reading you wrong than by all means explain it to me, I don't like virtual fights on the web..

General Petraeus didn't make his joke in a vacuum and Sec Gates didn't fire the top two AF guys on a whim.

They both think the AF doesn't have its heart or head in the current war. I agree with them. For the AF, its a serious cultural issue about teamwork that starts at the very top and needs to be changed.

The Navy vs AF thing is just an added bonus to this discussion. I'm a Navy footabll fan.

 

[learherkjay]

They both think the AF doesn't have its heart or head in the current war. I agree with them. For the AF, its a serious cultural issue about teamwork that starts at the very top and needs to be changed.

Dave,

I respectfully disagree with you, and your statement about cultural issues in my opinion, is dead wrong. There are many instances where each service is struggling to work more jointly, but these top Generals still struggle with bias from their backgrounds.
Operation Anaconda is a good example. The Army planned everything, kept the AF out of the loop, and then requested air power at the last minute. They blamed the AF for not being team players, but they failed to bring the AF into the "joint planning process." You can't just call up a B-1 and air support at the 11th hour and expect to get it. The 2 star was even criticized for the Army going it alone and the Operation didn't achieve it's goals.
In Kosovo, Gen Clark couldn't wrap his head around Air Power - he had a distinctive Army/ground bias that didn't enable him to fully utilize the Air Force. I saw Strike Eagles take off fully loaded and land fully loaded 6 hours later - Clark couldn't get it right.

Point being, there is a lot of poo slinging at the five pointed building and much of it is based on perception and misunderstanding; and based on each service fighting for dollars from the same pot - this needs to be changed as it breeds tribalism and duplication of effort by each branch. Admittedly, the AF is relatively new to the expeditionary concept and its organic elements are more decentralized than other services. Therefore, controlling those assets requires a bit more coordination.
The services are frustrated at the AF lack of UAV ability, but you cannot ramp up a program like that overnight. Also, getting fired by Gates was needed, but the Secretary is a civilian position - not necessarily a "brass" issue. And if you think the AF is the only one with those issues, feel free to keep burying your head in the sand.
I am starting to sound like a Command Staff College talking paper so I will stop now. No service is perfect and each branch has it's inherent problems, but for some reason you have a thorn in your side with the AF, and being from the Navy - I don't think you have the "big picture" on AF ops the way that you think you do.

Good luck to your Middies, hopefully the Falcons can reverse the trend this year in Maryland.

 

[Pistlpetet]

"DaveGriffin" STILL the internet troll that he is. STILL falsely displaying a SEAL trident which he has NEVER earned.

No real SEAL would waste his time with this drivel.

A few years ago I asked him to verify his claim of being a SEAL. He gave the real credentials of someone else who according to his BUDS Class Date, was in his 50's.

Numerous times I have seen "DaveGriffin" claiming that he went to the USNA in the early 90's. Thus he is a FOS poser, and should be treated as such. ZERO creds!