starvingcfi
CpApAwM
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GA into JFK
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Was there GA in last spring
I went into JFK in a 172RG last spring. 25$ landing and first 15 min on ramp free after that they charge some fee of like 50/hr or something like that. We got to stay for an hour however while the fuel guy went looking for the 100LL truck. They finally found it but didn't know if it would start. After it started and he got ready to fuel the airplane, low and behold the fuller nozzle was too wide for the little openings on the Cessna's. Long story short, do not plan on getting fuel, know the peak hours and make it a quick turn and it is a lot of fun.
I landed on 22R with the 3000 ft displaced threshold. I though to myself while landing “I have landed this airplane on runways smaller that the displaced threshold”.
Some people said it was a suicide mission in a single but I would like to do it in a 152 now just to say I have done it. Although I would probably have to land and depart at 1 AM to keep the little 90 kt wonder out of everyone’s way.
Wanabe
I went into JFK in a 172RG last spring. 25$ landing and first 15 min on ramp free after that they charge some fee of like 50/hr or something like that. We got to stay for an hour however while the fuel guy went looking for the 100LL truck. They finally found it but didn't know if it would start. After it started and he got ready to fuel the airplane, low and behold the fuller nozzle was too wide for the little openings on the Cessna's. Long story short, do not plan on getting fuel, know the peak hours and make it a quick turn and it is a lot of fun.
I landed on 22R with the 3000 ft displaced threshold. I though to myself while landing “I have landed this airplane on runways smaller that the displaced threshold”.
Some people said it was a suicide mission in a single but I would like to do it in a 152 now just to say I have done it. Although I would probably have to land and depart at 1 AM to keep the little 90 kt wonder out of everyone’s way.
Wanabe
bobbysamd
Well-known member
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- 5,710
JFK
Very interesting discussion. I thought that JFK is like most major airports, where spam cans and below are discouraged or prohibited from appearing.
Here in Denver, there used to be bunches of them based at the old Stapleton. I haven't seen a one at the new Denver International Airport. I believe that AMR-Combs runs an FBO, but it caters primarily to heavier corporate iron.
I believe that GA is prohibited altogether at DFW. I've seen King Airs and corporate-type equipment at ORD, but don't recall seeing light airplanes.
Very interesting discussion. I thought that JFK is like most major airports, where spam cans and below are discouraged or prohibited from appearing.
Here in Denver, there used to be bunches of them based at the old Stapleton. I haven't seen a one at the new Denver International Airport. I believe that AMR-Combs runs an FBO, but it caters primarily to heavier corporate iron.
I believe that GA is prohibited altogether at DFW. I've seen King Airs and corporate-type equipment at ORD, but don't recall seeing light airplanes.
You know its funny, there are places where GA is really easy and there are places where it's nuts:
BOS - never again - and those MASSport nazis, geez.
JFK - surprisingly easy, as long as you understand where all those taxiways go, A(Alpha) is clockwise, B(Bravo) is counterclockwise.
LGA - if you can talk Brooklynese and have big brass ones, welcome aboard. If you can't take the heat, stay out of this place.
EWR - fuhgetaboutit! You get just as bad(rude) service at TEB
TEB - LGA attitude without any reason for it.
PHL - piece of cake, especially if you can use 17-35
BWI- controllers love any plane that doesn't have Southwest or US airways callsigns just so they can give their mouth a rest. Got to be the worst Signature FBO on the planet.
DCA - alas, closed by TFR, but getting a reservation to do the river approach was so cool.
IAD - If it wasn't for the rookie controllers - why do they have to vector a C-172 for a 10 mile downwind? Piedmont Hawthorne folks are nice.
CLT - piece of cake except the controllers think they should be in New York. They can make a big deal of your "slow" plane in their traffic mix. Get over it, CLT, you ain't that big!
ATL - ah No. Why would you when Charlie Brown, PDK and RYY have such good service?
MCO - why not - that has got to be the coolest place to taxi around - I almost go snowblind from the bright white of the concrete.
I've never done GA into DFW, but if the airport is the size of Rhode Island, then you could potentially be taxiing for miles just to get somewhere. As a jumpseater on a -67, we landed and then taxiied for 15 minutes (non-stop) to finally pull into a gate. Turned to the captain and asked if he wouldn't mind dropping me off at Salt Lake City (my destination) on his way to the gate.
That's my east coast list. By the way, worst controllers - gotta be the "Kingdom of Greensboro(GSO)" - an island unto themselves, they don't play nice with any other controllers, no handoffs, no directs -- in fact, if you ask for something, GSO will most likely tell you to do the opposite just for spite. Arggghhh! Best controllers have to be New York going into LGA. Great sense of humor, working more planes than anyone has a right to expect. These guys should be playing for the PGA! (they're good)
BOS - never again - and those MASSport nazis, geez.
JFK - surprisingly easy, as long as you understand where all those taxiways go, A(Alpha) is clockwise, B(Bravo) is counterclockwise.
LGA - if you can talk Brooklynese and have big brass ones, welcome aboard. If you can't take the heat, stay out of this place.
EWR - fuhgetaboutit! You get just as bad(rude) service at TEB
TEB - LGA attitude without any reason for it.
PHL - piece of cake, especially if you can use 17-35
BWI- controllers love any plane that doesn't have Southwest or US airways callsigns just so they can give their mouth a rest. Got to be the worst Signature FBO on the planet.
DCA - alas, closed by TFR, but getting a reservation to do the river approach was so cool.
IAD - If it wasn't for the rookie controllers - why do they have to vector a C-172 for a 10 mile downwind? Piedmont Hawthorne folks are nice.
CLT - piece of cake except the controllers think they should be in New York. They can make a big deal of your "slow" plane in their traffic mix. Get over it, CLT, you ain't that big!
ATL - ah No. Why would you when Charlie Brown, PDK and RYY have such good service?
MCO - why not - that has got to be the coolest place to taxi around - I almost go snowblind from the bright white of the concrete.
I've never done GA into DFW, but if the airport is the size of Rhode Island, then you could potentially be taxiing for miles just to get somewhere. As a jumpseater on a -67, we landed and then taxiied for 15 minutes (non-stop) to finally pull into a gate. Turned to the captain and asked if he wouldn't mind dropping me off at Salt Lake City (my destination) on his way to the gate.
That's my east coast list. By the way, worst controllers - gotta be the "Kingdom of Greensboro(GSO)" - an island unto themselves, they don't play nice with any other controllers, no handoffs, no directs -- in fact, if you ask for something, GSO will most likely tell you to do the opposite just for spite. Arggghhh! Best controllers have to be New York going into LGA. Great sense of humor, working more planes than anyone has a right to expect. These guys should be playing for the PGA! (they're good)
knelson
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- Nov 26, 2001
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- 184
GA into DFW OK
Going into DFW as GA is not only allowed, but very common. They have a pretty good size ramp, fees are not too bad, and as long as you are willing to keep your speed up, the controllers seem to have no problem with you being there. I have made many dropoffs and pickups there and I think it is one of the easier big airports to operate to/from. It is pretty important, as mentioned, to get a good runway there as your taxi time could be just a few minutes short of forever.
Last time I was there I saw a really nice looking Aerostar and the line guy told me it was an American 777 capt.'s plane that he uses to commute from AR.
The most important thing to remember when you go into these large, Air Carrier dominated airports is to be familiar with the airport layout before you get there and just take a little extra caution. Good luck and enjoy the experience.
Kevin
Going into DFW as GA is not only allowed, but very common. They have a pretty good size ramp, fees are not too bad, and as long as you are willing to keep your speed up, the controllers seem to have no problem with you being there. I have made many dropoffs and pickups there and I think it is one of the easier big airports to operate to/from. It is pretty important, as mentioned, to get a good runway there as your taxi time could be just a few minutes short of forever.
Last time I was there I saw a really nice looking Aerostar and the line guy told me it was an American 777 capt.'s plane that he uses to commute from AR.
The most important thing to remember when you go into these large, Air Carrier dominated airports is to be familiar with the airport layout before you get there and just take a little extra caution. Good luck and enjoy the experience.
Kevin
100LL... Again!
youwantapieceofme??
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KingAirer
It was 100LL. The Cutlass along with some other 172's has the little inch and a half fuel nozzle opening. The actual nozzle from the fuel truck was like 2 1/2 to 3 inches across. It works fine for Cherokees and the like but not for the little ole Cessna’s. I did get concerned however when they said they would have to go find the truck. Who knows how long the fuel sat in the truck with interesting contaminants I am sure. A Seneca took fuel after us when we could not and I did not hear of a plane making a splashdown after departure from Kenedy that night so I assume that the truck was properly labeled as 100LL.
As for Tarp's list, I found EWR not to be that bad. I went into there several times in everything from a Warrior to a Duchess and have not had any problems. I agree with BWI, the line people are idiots too, or at least one of them is. It was pouring rain and they fueled the airplane without an umbrella. I wanted to ask if they charged extra for the gallon of water in the tanks but decided not to. I still ended up with one engine missing a few beats on the departure even after sumping what seamed like gallons out of the tanks.
GSO controllers, one of them is very nice the rest suck! Try flying into an airport on the edge of their territory and CLT's territory. No cooperation for IFR cancellations. CLT talks to you like you are stupid when you call to cancel if you actually have to shoot an approach because GSO never calls up and lets them know what is going on when GSO puts you on the approach.
It was 100LL. The Cutlass along with some other 172's has the little inch and a half fuel nozzle opening. The actual nozzle from the fuel truck was like 2 1/2 to 3 inches across. It works fine for Cherokees and the like but not for the little ole Cessna’s. I did get concerned however when they said they would have to go find the truck. Who knows how long the fuel sat in the truck with interesting contaminants I am sure. A Seneca took fuel after us when we could not and I did not hear of a plane making a splashdown after departure from Kenedy that night so I assume that the truck was properly labeled as 100LL.
As for Tarp's list, I found EWR not to be that bad. I went into there several times in everything from a Warrior to a Duchess and have not had any problems. I agree with BWI, the line people are idiots too, or at least one of them is. It was pouring rain and they fueled the airplane without an umbrella. I wanted to ask if they charged extra for the gallon of water in the tanks but decided not to. I still ended up with one engine missing a few beats on the departure even after sumping what seamed like gallons out of the tanks.
GSO controllers, one of them is very nice the rest suck! Try flying into an airport on the edge of their territory and CLT's territory. No cooperation for IFR cancellations. CLT talks to you like you are stupid when you call to cancel if you actually have to shoot an approach because GSO never calls up and lets them know what is going on when GSO puts you on the approach.
TXCAP4228
Well-known member
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- Sep 10, 2002
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- 426
DFW
At DFW the GA FBO is on the SW corner of the terminal area, just East of 36R, toward the South end (just north of txwyB). The landing fee is a $25 min and is based on $3.13 per 1000 pounds of landing weight.
Low approaches are, of course, free, and if they're not busy (middle of the night) you can do them no problem. Kind of fun to fly ILS's there.
But then, I am admittedly a dork.
At DFW the GA FBO is on the SW corner of the terminal area, just East of 36R, toward the South end (just north of txwyB). The landing fee is a $25 min and is based on $3.13 per 1000 pounds of landing weight.
Low approaches are, of course, free, and if they're not busy (middle of the night) you can do them no problem. Kind of fun to fly ILS's there.
But then, I am admittedly a dork.
I did not look at all of the replies you have recieved, so, this may be a repeat. We have been into JFK a few times. You will need a reseravation for certain times of the day. The #800-875-9694. You will be walked thru the res process. It is expensive, and you will go to the GA terminal. They talk fast and expect you to be on your toes. It is very cool, and you will see lots of airplanes. Hope this helps, have fun!
Gentlemen,
Flew into JFK at 0700 local this morning. Had a very easy time of it. The funny part were the reactions of the preflight briefer and the 1st NY controller I talked too: " JFK? Really?". The Ny controllers are the best. I've only flown in LA and in the NE so my experience is limited, but the guys and gals at NY approach are nice, polite, understanding and can be at times extremely humorous. The folks at GAT were great too. Gave me a ride to the DHL ramp, waited for us while I got the tour ( A300 is HUGE) and on the way back parked us close to a concorde as it pushed back and began to taxi. Only paid $25 ( non peak hours). All in all a great trip.
Again, thanks for all the info, help and tips.
Flew into JFK at 0700 local this morning. Had a very easy time of it. The funny part were the reactions of the preflight briefer and the 1st NY controller I talked too: " JFK? Really?". The Ny controllers are the best. I've only flown in LA and in the NE so my experience is limited, but the guys and gals at NY approach are nice, polite, understanding and can be at times extremely humorous. The folks at GAT were great too. Gave me a ride to the DHL ramp, waited for us while I got the tour ( A300 is HUGE) and on the way back parked us close to a concorde as it pushed back and began to taxi. Only paid $25 ( non peak hours). All in all a great trip.
Again, thanks for all the info, help and tips.
3
350DRIVER
Glad to hear that all went well, piece of cake to fly in and out of there. Some of the nicest controllers that you will ever come into contact with as well. The Port Authority will also go out of there way to accomodate you. My hat is off to the workers there for always making sure that the crews get to wherever they want to go to. Next time you are in town ask the Port Authority for a ride to Don Peppe's Italain Restaurant in Queens which is only a short ride away. Some of the best Italian food I have ever had and is where most of the celebs get there food from for there aircraft when they fly into JFK. (Don has a few stories to tell- ask him)- - 
Quite abit of history in the restaurant itself.
3 5 0
Quite abit of history in the restaurant itself.3 5 0
flywithruss
Rocky Top!
- Joined
- Nov 26, 2001
- Posts
- 237
Class Bs
It is my goal to visit every Class B in the continental US in a piston airplane ... I've done 14 so far, mostly in Bonanzas, but some in Duchesses, Cherokees, and Cessnas. Here are my impressions ...
EWR: Not bad at all ... fly fast, talk fast, don't miss a radio call, and they'll take you pretty happily. I was there today, in fact, albeit in the King Air.
BWI: Easy Bravo to do ... they'll give you 15L/33R every time, adjacent to Signature's ramp. Signature sent me to a good Italian place the last time I was in there.
IAD: Gotta love this one ... I was there earlier this week. The trick is to get the right runway ... let the controller know on initial contact whether you're going to Hawthorne or Signature, and they'll try to put you on the proper side of the airport. Otherwise, you have to talk to the ramp controllers and transit the air carrier ramp. Just don't do what I got stuck doing once ... land runway 12 to park at Signature ... the taxi took about 20 minutes and was literally four miles long.
CLT: Did this one many times as a CFI ... used to take my primary students in there at night in 152s. They publish their "peak times" ... when US is coming and going ... the rest of the time it is pretty quiet.
ATL: I loved it, personally ... Atlanta is blessed with some great GA fields, but ATL is a fun spot to go. The Mercury folks are nice, and if you can keep the speed up they'll work you in with no trouble. The first time I did it was in a 172 at night; they fit me in between a 757 and an ATR landing 26R.
MEM: Easy as pie, and lots of good scenery, with both the NWA and FDX hubs there. Plus, one of the VERY BEST FBOs in the country at Wilson Air Center. This place puts almost every other FBO I've ever visited to shame. You can't miss it. While in town, hit the Rendezvous for ribs, see the ducks at the Peabody, and stop by Elvis' house and pay your respects.
MCI: A sprawling airport that can have long taxi times if you land on the wrong runway ... land 1L/19R when possible. The airport's in the middle of nowhere so if your destination is in town, go to MKC instead. The controllers were great, though.
DTW: One of the busier ones I've done ... shot an ILS in a snowstorm after a 30 minute hold because two runways were closed for snow removal. Quite busy, and you need to stay on your toes, but a great challenge nonetheless.
PIT: The only downside to PIT is expensive fuel. Nice new FBO with real nice folks ... this airport is convenient to family, and I've parked an airplane there three days and had all fees (except landing, $12-15 for the A36) waived with fuel purchase. When in a west operation, they'll have you land 32 and depart 28R, resulting in short taxis.
IAH: They want you fast ... but they'll take you. They usually land 26 and 27, which means a long taxi to either FBO, but the preferred departure runway is 15L, and (at least from Qualitron) it isn't too far.
JFK: As before, I'd do it in a minute. For those who were wondering, slots are only required at JFK between 1500-1959 local, seven days a week. The rest of the time, file and go. Use 13R/31L if possible, and study the airport diagram because this is one of the most complex places there is to taxi around.
PHL: Easy ... as previously mentioned, use 17/35 if available, or 8/26 for easy access to Atlantic. Atlantic usually runs pretty good deals on Avgas too ... I topped off there for less than $2.10 per gallon this summer ... I actually tankered fuel up to PVD because I saved $0.60 a gallon in Philly!
DAL: Herb's home is a pretty docile place to go. Regal Aviation is a great FBO with super service and low fuel prices (at least on Jet ... under $2!).
HOU: A Class B where there is a TON of flight training going on. 'Nuff said.
As of early in 2002, the slot program at ORD was terminated, so no reservation is required anymore. EWR's program (they used to be slot-controlled in winter only) is also history. JFK only needs slots 1500-1959 local. LGA ... slots from 0600-2359 local. Same hours at DCA, if they let Part 91 airplanes back in there in our lifetime.
Would love to hear other people's experiences with fields I've not been to. One of these days, I'll hit them all ....
Good luck!
R
It is my goal to visit every Class B in the continental US in a piston airplane ... I've done 14 so far, mostly in Bonanzas, but some in Duchesses, Cherokees, and Cessnas. Here are my impressions ...
EWR: Not bad at all ... fly fast, talk fast, don't miss a radio call, and they'll take you pretty happily. I was there today, in fact, albeit in the King Air.
BWI: Easy Bravo to do ... they'll give you 15L/33R every time, adjacent to Signature's ramp. Signature sent me to a good Italian place the last time I was in there.
IAD: Gotta love this one ... I was there earlier this week. The trick is to get the right runway ... let the controller know on initial contact whether you're going to Hawthorne or Signature, and they'll try to put you on the proper side of the airport. Otherwise, you have to talk to the ramp controllers and transit the air carrier ramp. Just don't do what I got stuck doing once ... land runway 12 to park at Signature ... the taxi took about 20 minutes and was literally four miles long.
CLT: Did this one many times as a CFI ... used to take my primary students in there at night in 152s. They publish their "peak times" ... when US is coming and going ... the rest of the time it is pretty quiet.
ATL: I loved it, personally ... Atlanta is blessed with some great GA fields, but ATL is a fun spot to go. The Mercury folks are nice, and if you can keep the speed up they'll work you in with no trouble. The first time I did it was in a 172 at night; they fit me in between a 757 and an ATR landing 26R.
MEM: Easy as pie, and lots of good scenery, with both the NWA and FDX hubs there. Plus, one of the VERY BEST FBOs in the country at Wilson Air Center. This place puts almost every other FBO I've ever visited to shame. You can't miss it. While in town, hit the Rendezvous for ribs, see the ducks at the Peabody, and stop by Elvis' house and pay your respects.
MCI: A sprawling airport that can have long taxi times if you land on the wrong runway ... land 1L/19R when possible. The airport's in the middle of nowhere so if your destination is in town, go to MKC instead. The controllers were great, though.
DTW: One of the busier ones I've done ... shot an ILS in a snowstorm after a 30 minute hold because two runways were closed for snow removal. Quite busy, and you need to stay on your toes, but a great challenge nonetheless.
PIT: The only downside to PIT is expensive fuel. Nice new FBO with real nice folks ... this airport is convenient to family, and I've parked an airplane there three days and had all fees (except landing, $12-15 for the A36) waived with fuel purchase. When in a west operation, they'll have you land 32 and depart 28R, resulting in short taxis.
IAH: They want you fast ... but they'll take you. They usually land 26 and 27, which means a long taxi to either FBO, but the preferred departure runway is 15L, and (at least from Qualitron) it isn't too far.
JFK: As before, I'd do it in a minute. For those who were wondering, slots are only required at JFK between 1500-1959 local, seven days a week. The rest of the time, file and go. Use 13R/31L if possible, and study the airport diagram because this is one of the most complex places there is to taxi around.
PHL: Easy ... as previously mentioned, use 17/35 if available, or 8/26 for easy access to Atlantic. Atlantic usually runs pretty good deals on Avgas too ... I topped off there for less than $2.10 per gallon this summer ... I actually tankered fuel up to PVD because I saved $0.60 a gallon in Philly!
DAL: Herb's home is a pretty docile place to go. Regal Aviation is a great FBO with super service and low fuel prices (at least on Jet ... under $2!).
HOU: A Class B where there is a TON of flight training going on. 'Nuff said.
As of early in 2002, the slot program at ORD was terminated, so no reservation is required anymore. EWR's program (they used to be slot-controlled in winter only) is also history. JFK only needs slots 1500-1959 local. LGA ... slots from 0600-2359 local. Same hours at DCA, if they let Part 91 airplanes back in there in our lifetime.
Would love to hear other people's experiences with fields I've not been to. One of these days, I'll hit them all ....
Good luck!
R
Toronto
Now that this thread has turned into a big airport with piston airplanes thread,
I second must of flywithruss's opinion as I have been to most of the same and the Italian food was great at BWI.
Even though it is not in the states, it is close to the states, Toronto is probably the most dificult ground operation I ever did. You will be asked to talk to 3-5 ground controllers to get from the runway to parking and the same number to get back out. Plus it is very expensive. 65$ canadian off peak and 120$ peek in a single for landing fees and another 50 for ramp. Only waivable with purchase of 30 Gal(US). I told the lady, some planes do not even hold that much gas?
Now that this thread has turned into a big airport with piston airplanes thread,
I second must of flywithruss's opinion as I have been to most of the same and the Italian food was great at BWI.
Even though it is not in the states, it is close to the states, Toronto is probably the most dificult ground operation I ever did. You will be asked to talk to 3-5 ground controllers to get from the runway to parking and the same number to get back out. Plus it is very expensive. 65$ canadian off peak and 120$ peek in a single for landing fees and another 50 for ramp. Only waivable with purchase of 30 Gal(US). I told the lady, some planes do not even hold that much gas?
Freight Dog
Well-known member
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- Nov 26, 2001
- Posts
- 2,232
I see a bunch of East Coast airports. Here are some West Coast and Hawaii:
SAN - they'll take ya in high and fast since it's only one runway available. Landing fees are reasonable. No touch and gos or practice approaches. IFR, no sweat.
LAX - I loved going in there with AMF in a PA31. They like ya fast in there too... taxi instructions at LAX are hillarious... take left on A2, left A, right on B, hold short of X and contact ground 118.75, all while you are still trying to stop the plane on the runway...
LAS - no problem there at all unless the weather goes down.
PHX - now this place ROYALLY sucks. They stack you in a VFR hold outside of Class B and they're like... hold over the lake, we'll call you back in 30 minutes. IFR, no problem.
SFO - IFR was no problem... they just want you in fast as well. Never gone in there VFR.
HNL - IFR is no problem... VFR.. seems like there is a lot of GA flying in and out of HNL, so it can't be too bad. I've heard some VFR holds, but not too often.
SAN - they'll take ya in high and fast since it's only one runway available. Landing fees are reasonable. No touch and gos or practice approaches. IFR, no sweat.
LAX - I loved going in there with AMF in a PA31. They like ya fast in there too... taxi instructions at LAX are hillarious... take left on A2, left A, right on B, hold short of X and contact ground 118.75, all while you are still trying to stop the plane on the runway...
LAS - no problem there at all unless the weather goes down.
PHX - now this place ROYALLY sucks. They stack you in a VFR hold outside of Class B and they're like... hold over the lake, we'll call you back in 30 minutes. IFR, no problem.
SFO - IFR was no problem... they just want you in fast as well. Never gone in there VFR.
HNL - IFR is no problem... VFR.. seems like there is a lot of GA flying in and out of HNL, so it can't be too bad. I've heard some VFR holds, but not too often.
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