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G200 Info

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400A

400A

Well-known member
Joined
May 26, 2003
Posts
1,760
Have these airplanes started to settle down yet? How many of them are there now? Does anyone know anything about #36, an ex-Lockheed/Martin airplane that Gulfsteam is now using as a demonstrator? Should I dare try to operate one of these without a mechanic on staff?

Thanks in advance for any advice!
 
I wouldn't operate one without 12 mechanics on staff - be sure the pilots are mechanics too. Pack lots of starter/generators, landing gear actuators, flap actuators, a windshield, and FADECs.

Ask Gulfstream how many were given back and how many lawsuits are pending over these beasts...

I personally think they fly pretty nice and have a decent cabin....but I wouldn't go near one...

Buy a DA2000 instead, well worth the extra few bucks...

Just an opinion from someone who was stranded all over the world in a Galaxy.

Good Luck.
 
Gulfstream 200 said:
I wouldn't operate one without 12 mechanics on staff - be sure the pilots are mechanics too. Pack lots of starter/generators, landing gear actuators, flap actuators, a windshield, and FADECs.

Ask Gulfstream how many were given back and how many lawsuits are pending over these beasts...

I personally think they fly pretty nice and have a decent cabin....but I wouldn't go near one...

Buy a DA2000 instead, well worth the extra few bucks...

Just an opinion from someone who was stranded all over the world in a Galaxy.

Good Luck.
Click to expand...
Gulfstream 200 is just a little behind the power curve on this one. Early s/n had LOTS of growing pains, but they seem to be OK now (probably because of all the work Gulfstream did to fix/update them).


Good friend of mine operates two of them…one pre-s/n 50 the other post s/n50….out of the hangar right down from ours. They are flying about 700 hours a year each and never seem to have any problems.

Savannah changed the starters to a ceramic type…no more problems. Early windshields all replaced with re-designed units. And, since the FADEC consists of multiple units, don’t know which one G200 is referring to. Gear actuators?...have any ever landed gear up?

Think back to the history of all new designs….most were real junkers the first year or two. The original TFE731 had more reliability problems than any other engine I know of but is now as good or better than the rest (I think G200 is just a little too young to know about that…but I do. Been there and done that). Challenger 600 was a real nightmare, but now has a +99.7 % dispatch rate. Even the ‘almighty’ Global had more than its share of problems, but I never heard of a Galaxy deciding all on its own to throw out the slats at FL450.

And, I know the guys on our field are really impressed with operating costs. All they pay is fuel and oil plus flat rates for scheduled inspections. They are operating them for less than $1000 per hour. Gulfstream picks up the parts and labor for everything on the airplane for 5 years. P&W takes care of the motors.


We looked at them real close but decided against it ONLY because of its high/hot performance, which is a big deal to us.
 
suen1843 said:
Gulfstream 200 is just a little behind the power curve on this one. Early s/n had LOTS of growing pains, but they seem to be OK now (probably because of all the work Gulfstream did to fix/update them).
Click to expand...

I have to agree with suen1843. I was one of the first guys to get typed in the Galaxy and I have flown them all over the world. It's no different than practically any other airplane ever built - you don't want to be the first one on the block to own one. Our's was an early serial number and we had all of the problems that G200 mentioned and a few more, but those problems have been resolved in later airplanes and they have become quite reliable. It's still probably best to avoid an early serial number. From a pilot's point of view, they're pretty simple systems wise. They have a nice cabin and with the right sound proofing they're very quiet. They land like a Conquest II or trailing-link Cessna 421 - you can't make a bad landing in one. If you fly them by the book, they're quite fast, but they run out of "wing" before they run out of power. If you need to operate out of a 5,000' runway and fly coast to coast it might not be the airplane for you; but, all in all, you could do much worse.

Lead Sled
 
The S/N's I flew were AFTER the one he is looking at....post 36

but since Im Behind the Power curve...

Just ask Gulfstream why so many are traded in on GIV/GV's? Because thier deal was they would give you full G200 sticker price back in return for a GIV/GV deal to avoid more lawsuits...

How many of those "great deals" were trade ins after a defective rear lav leaked all its fluid right up the entire aircraft to the cockpit? I know of at least 3 for a fact. Is yours one of these?

Now, as I said - it flies nice and is comfy - but that does you no good when it wont start...

The G200 is simply a lemon. Yes, you can get a great deal on lemon.

Im sure things have improved, well, $hit I HOPE SO...Im not blaming Gufstream here, I dont think they knew what they were getting into..

All I am doing is giving my opinion from experience with TWO post 36 S/N aircraft and many months at KDAL in mx...

Dont take it personal, Im not beating up on your rides folks...I dont care what you fly...


PS - gear actuators...75% of the fleet sat dormant after Lockheed Martin landed thiers with no green indication...we got ours from a green aircraft on the ramp at KDAL. Poor guy waited an extra month to get his bastardized Galaxy..
 
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Thanks G-200

G-200, no offense taken, we do not have one yet. That is why I posted this. We are at the shopping point right now. Our leading contender right now is the Lear 45XR (New), however gulfstream had come at us with #36. This would be a second airplane in addition to our 400A.

I really know nothing about them, thats why I thought I would post....to get all opinions. Yours is greatly appreciated. I was leary. Sounds like it is gonna be another wait till after #100 kind of airplane. (like most)

As you know, I do charter on the side, so it has to be reliable.

Could I handle a 2000 without a staff mechanic? We could only afford a 2000 off warranty, any Idea of MX cost. I know falcon is proud of parts.

This airplane will have to do hot and high well.

Thanks again.
 
G200 speaks the truth with respect to Gulfstream's dealings with the G200/Galaxy. We were in neg. with all three of the major players for a super mid-sized cabin (new). Gulstream was very willing to "give" their airplane away just for market share while giving us an excellent "deal" on our trade. None of the others were. We still went with the competion based on survey's, pilot/MX interview's, research, demo's and my bosses dis-like of the VERY noisy cabin.

With that said, in my opinion, gulfstream has done wonders for the IAI line (unless you are a Westwind operator). Parts became reliable and and readily avialible. This was not the case when dealing with the Isreali's. We still had a couple of problem's getting parts from Isreal, but for the most part, parts were avial. in the U.S. I know the parts are more expensive, but if you cannot get them, what good are they.

As far as 400A's question about a mech, I would not want to operate any airplane without one. Or at the very least, be based at an FBO with factory trained mech who is at your beck and call. We have a brand new 2000 and have still needed our mech on to ensure consistant on time departure.

If you are looking at a non-warrenty 2000 a good Dir. of Maint can save you his/her salary in parts. Not to mention watching over the thieves at the FBO's and Factory Service Centers. I watched ours save us his entire year's salary in 6 months when we owned our previous airplane.

Tell your boss to get over the investment of another salary and he will be glad he did the next time you go to a service center. Not to mention the nuicence squawks that can get cleaned up afer every post-flight. I know, it was a hard sell for me to my boss. It has paid off though.
 
Yes, I was not aiming the comments at you - they were at "my friend down the hangar flies one and he likes it".....like he's going to admit he flies a POS?

Im just sharing my experience with it..that is all..

The company I work for currently operates 4 Falcons. They are not my personal favorite either (flying wise), but one thing they have - plain and simple - is reliability. Little things here and there...sure...but no trip stoppers. We fly each one 800+ hrs a year (a lot!) They just go and go...I suppose that is why we keep them. ($hit, I just fly what Im told..)

Hot and High? again Dassault has your number there...

I always liked Learjets myself too! - and the 2000 may be in a diffrent price range (?) but its also in a different cabin category I think...

Good Luck with your choice!
 
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Cannot go wrong with a Falcon high and hot. A Falcon 50 might be a good price compromise. There still might be a few out there for sale
 
mechanic

I know,, I may not be able to put off the mechanic issue. only reason we have not before is because we are based at a service center for the Beechjet.

Doc's on the 50 make me a little nervous. This owner does not like older airplanes. I think the 45XR is a good choice, we are just having trouble getting one. We have a deposit down.
 
400A said:
G200-

I agree with TY, you are a sad, unhappy person, and I feel sorry for you. I bet you are one of those guys no one wants to fly with because you sit all day and complain. I bet you even complain about flying something as sweet as the 900

Mabe it was the G-200 that made you this way...Not really a Gulfstream anyway, Just an overgrown westwind... I notice none of your ratings say G-- in front of them.. I'm sure that would be important to a guy like you. That means you are not truly a Gulfstream Pilot.

As far as my title, I am sure that outburst made you feel better, and I am sorry you are not one... I bet I know the reason.. As far as my other employees, their titles are Captain, Captain and Charter Coordinator. Not only that, my employees have been with me for a very long time, including when I had the same title at a fortune 500 company with 8 aircraft and 12 pilots. We chose to leave for this employer.

By the way, I did not give myself this title, It is in the corporate charter. I could not care less what the title is. It just means that I am responsible,,, or in your case, the one you would blame your miserable life on.

As far as my job going away,, I dont think so. Plane is paid for. the new one we are getting will be too. Any job can go away, I am betting it will be you and your crappy attitude on the unemployment line first... I'll see ya there!!!!
Click to expand...
Well, have you guys made up yet? Sounds like you answered your own question 400A. The G200 is just an overgrown westwind.

Haha--funny stuff.
 
Thanks a million Gear Guy

If you also go back and look,,(while you are digging up the past) you will find that we have agreed on some issues,,, That is why I asked for and respected his opinion.

The fact is, while we may not agree about charter, I have to respect his time in the aircraft.

Thanks again for bringing that up.....NOT
 
really...

we can disagree on things and agree on others...no problem.

He was just looking for operators opinions...

I myself dont hold any grudges after some good flightinfo.com sparring.

:)

....wait....unless its related to those fractional clowns...

now let me jump over to that board and beat on some of them (again..)
 
Was'nt diggin up the past. I was doing a search on the G200 airplane and just found it odd that in one post you pretty much say the G200 is junk. I then proceed to click on another one and you want info on buying one. Hey, I didnt say it you did. I'm not pickin sides here. I am just amazed how quick people are to punk someone out and then ask for their help and respect their opinion later.
 
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maybe he really thinks (suspects) its junk, but needs to present the potential owner with a few comps in category?

Showing the other "junk" in class can sometimes get the aircraft YOU really want signed off on..

rememeber, off all things, thick skin IS needed in this profession - and a sense of humor helps too...

I dont hold anything against 400a, as Im sure he does not either.....
 
Very true Gulfstream200 on the skin. Sorry if I made too big a deal out of it. No offence to either of you. I just found it funny.
 
grudge

I as well have not held a grudge..

Again, I dont know why gearguy is trying to stir the pot.

Thanks to everyone for the input.
 
400A- I apoligize. I thought about it and it does look like I was stirring the pot. Even though I did just come across the thread. You don't have to believe me. I am man enough to take the blame. I shouldnt have posted it...especially on a perfectly good thread. I am being sincere.
 
gear_guy said:
Well, have you guys made up yet? Sounds like you answered your own question 400A. The G200 is just an overgrown westwind.

Haha--funny stuff.
Click to expand...
Overgrown Westwind is probably right. And, a Global is an overgrown CL-600, a Lear 60 is an overgrown LR24, a G4/5/350 etc is an overgrown G159, a DA50 is an overgrown DA20, a 777 is an overgrown 737, and on and on and on.

We didn't get a G200 because it didn't meet our high and hot needs. Same reason we didn't get a CL-604 or LR45 or Hawker XP. The DA900 would have been a good fit, but, since we previously operated a Dassault product, we were aware of the arrogant and lazy attitude of the French when it comes to product support, we didn't even look at the 900 or 2000.

Solved all the problems by getting another G4SP.

Our neighbor with the pair of 200's is happy with his. He borrows our mechanic occasionally for pre/post work. Our guy says it is very easy to work on. I can only relate whatever information is given to me. But, the guys on our field say they have never had a failure to dispatch on time in the 2 years they have operated the 200. I have also seen them land several times and make the first turnoff....2600 feet from the threshold.

BTW, I have been told the G200 has the same gear legs, brakes and wheels as the Challenger. Anyone know if that is correct?
 
suen1843 said:
BTW, I have been told the G200 has the same gear legs, brakes and wheels as the Challenger. Anyone know if that is correct?
Click to expand...
No, the are definately different. If anything, the wheels are closer to what you'd find on a Falcon. As far as a G200 just being an overgrown Westwind, there is actually a lot of truth to that statement. It is definately an overgrown SPX.

Lead Sled
 
No Sweat Gear Guy

No worries man!!

As far as the aircraft, it will be based in a large southern city with a nasty river 300 yards north of the airport.
 

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