G200/cl30

[BoilerUP]

I wonder if Gulfstream would allow you to lease a G200 until the G250 arrives (trade in)? Anything is possible in this depressed economy... The G250 looks like a big improvement and may be worth waiting for.

Gulfstream had a program where people could buy G100s and get a guaranteed trade-in value on them toward a G150, so it'd be reasonable to assume they would have a similar program for the G200/G250...especially in this economy.

Have you considered a Hawker 4000? There are probably a few of those sittaing around and Hawker is hurting bad for deals. Not sure how that compares to the G200/CL30 in terms of performance but I have heard some good things about the H4000 in general. I am pretty sure the H4000 beats the G200 in the performance category.

The 4000, while a nice airplane, has a smaller cabin than both the G200 and the CL30...and marginally less range than either (pretty close to CL30 though). The 4000 does come with dual INS however, while single INS isn't even an option on the CL30 (curious what braintrust at Bombardier made that decision, especially when Gulfstream offers a single INS as a $198k option on the G150).

I also wish the Hawker 4000 came with PL21 or Fusion instead of Epic...

 

[johnsonrod]

Gulfstream had a program where people could buy G100s and get a guaranteed trade-in value on them toward a G150, so it'd be reasonable to assume they would have a similar program for the G200/G250...especially in this economy.



The 4000, while a nice airplane, has a smaller cabin than both the G200 and the CL30...and marginally less range than either (pretty close to CL30 though). The 4000 does come with dual INS however, while single INS isn't even an option on the CL30 (curious what braintrust at Bombardier made that decision, especially when Gulfstream offers a single INS as a $198k option on the G150).

I also wish the Hawker 4000 came with PL21 or Fusion instead of Epic...[/QUOTE]

Interesting you should say that about the EPIC. I have spoken with a bunch of Jet Blue pilots on the E190 and they agree that the EPIC is sub-standard. I hear the ProLine 21 is very nice.

 

[jet2work]

Proline 21 Very Nice. Epic? Me don't know.

Bombardier support -- PATHETIC (Don't take my word for it, read the latest AIN and Pro Pilot surveys) .

The CL30 is a sexy airplane. Trust me, it performs much better than a G200 if you are going anywhere hot and high.

The CL30 does not have INS (or IRU) available even as an option. While those things suck for Nav anyway(5.6 miles off course...yada yada), if you are out over the big blue and you lose your GPS, you will love them like that Farrah Fawcett poster you used to have on your wall. imp:

Many of the things that were standard equipment on the CL30 were RIDICULOUS airline spec B.S. No HF, single Nav comm, single FMS, etc... Are they so F'n Stupid that they don't realize that they are selling to Fortune 500 customers? A. YES THEY ARE. They were just trying to make it look like their aircraft was cheaper than the Galaxy / G200. Imagine BMW offering a 7 series with cloth seats, no power windows or door lock, no CD, no Navi, no HID, and a manual tranny. That's was your base price CL30 $17.5 Million thank you very much.

Now, many of those items are standard equipment, so we can quit playing games with the French Canadiens. You always got the feeling like they were trying to treek zee stuuupeed Amerikaans. And they probably were. The CL30 is STILL having teething pains 6 years after certification (which is unacceptable). If your boss does not like being stranded in BFE, get the G200 or you will be unemployed with a CL30 type rating.

The problem is not with the aircraft (it really is a great machine). The problem is with Bombardier. They refuse to acknowledge that their masterpiece could possibly be flawed. Eeeet mussst be summmtzing zat you are doing wrong. Oh, did I mention their training sucks? Ask anyone who has flown that sim. It is unreal that the FAA certified that thing to cat D.

It is a more complicated aircraft than the G200 Avionics and certification wise. Perhaps it is too complicated for a company like Bombardier to support. I know one thing for sure. While I love the CL30 I would NEVER buy a Global. At that price range, there is no excuse in the world that would placate a competent CEO as to why he is stuck on the ramp in BFE and it may be a few days. These things are Time Machines for weathly high powered people. If you take that away or put it in doubt, you have lost your reason for existence.


I would not buy a G200, but I would definitely look at a G250. Talk to a Gulfstream salesperson. They can probably craft a deal to get you into a preowned G200 with a promise of an early delivery on a G250 (I'm guessing / hoping it's gonna be the same type rating?). I think that the Hawker 4000 might be a great aircraft too (Honeywell Avionics - but at least current gen.) Maybe Raytheon was too cautious and should have rushed that plane to market like Bombardier did with the CL30.

 

[LJ45]

I have two friends both CP with CL30 operations,they have no on going problems, they hardly ever break, easy to maintain, love them and would buy another in a heart beat. your mileage may vary.

 

[ghostrider64]

The G200 has boots...why?

The G200 has rudder bias...why?

The G200 does not have a 99.82% dispatch reliability...Unless you decide to not follow the MEL

Don't count on ever flying over Tstorms at anything above 410 the wing stops flying. You get any turbulence at all above 410 and your going to feel the shaker...

The cabin is noisy, which is why the cabin entry door curtain is closed on every flight.

The cockpit is more spacious than a GIV but there are drawbacks to the plane. Pax also love the spacious feeling of the plane.

 

[masedogg19]

Pax also love the spacious feeling of the plane.

Isn't that really the most important of the points that you posted?

 

[ghostrider64]

Isn't that really the most important of the points that you posted?

Not reliability?

 

[masedogg19]

When they look at differences in reliability of less than 1%, comfort probably becomes a bigger priority.

 

[CLECA]

HE had me entranced right up until he said the G-200 had big windows. I stopped reading right there.