G150

[falcon50sic]

Just wondering if anyone has received a new G150 yet and if so first impressions? We are operating an Excel that started making metal this week so we're considering getting into something different. Any info would be appreciated.

 

[johnsonrod]

Just wondering if anyone has received a new G150 yet and if so first impressions? We are operating an Excel that started making metal this week so we're considering getting into something different. Any info would be appreciated.

I hear it has terrible runway performance (runway hog) and not good in hot/high conditions. Nice flight deck though.

 

[NGT]

Just wondering if anyone has received a new G150 yet and if so first impressions? We are operating an Excel that started making metal this week so we're considering getting into something different. Any info would be appreciated.

At my last company we demo'd the G150, Soveriegn, LR45xr, and Excel. The G150 had the worst performance with the best and most persistant salespeople. It was a runway hog with less pax and a staggering gap between max T/O wgt and Max Land wgt (3800#'s if I remember correctly). The aircraft has a swept slatted wing with silver BOOTS!! The salespeople were relentless although they do have the industries best customer service hands down!! The XLS has better range with 7 pax +20C and any Runway less than 6000'. I am not a fan of any G less than 300!!

Good Luck

P.S. The salespeople will convince you that the global annual temp is less than +10C and that it can do 2700nm under any condition. GET THE BOOKS!!

 

[falcon50sic]

Thanks for the info. I think the boss wants to take a look at it but it's not going to work for us since we need something capable of short field ops. I'd imagine we'll end up with an XLS. The 10 degree C thing is crazy! Definitely not the case for us operating out of FL.

 

[CRAZY LEGS]

The aircraft has a swept slatted wing with silver BOOTS!!

I remember seeing it from a distance and thinking "wow, they managed to put a hot wing on that astra." Then I walked up to it and saw that they had just painted the boot silver to try to fool you. Pretty clever.. oh well, at least it does improve its look.

 

[GVFlyer]

For your comparisons, here are the specifications for the Gulfstream G150.


Cabin: 17'8"L x 5'9"H x 5'9"W

Cabin Volume: 465 cu. ft.

Baggage Volume: 80 cu. ft.

Max Ramp wt: 26,250 lb.

Max Take-Off wt.: 26,100 lb.

Max Ldg. wt.: 21,700 lb.

Max Zero Fuel wt.: 17,500 lb.

Spec. Operating wt.: 15,100 lb.

Max Fuel: 10,300 lb.

Max Payload: 2,400 lb.

Max Payload/Full Fuel: 850 lb.

Engines: (2) TFE731-40AR

Thrust Rating ea.(lb.): 4,420

TBO (hrs): 5,000

Normal Cruise: M0.80

Long Range Cruise:M0.75

Mmo: M0.85

Range @ Norm. Cruise: 2,600 nm

Range @ LRC: 2,950 nm

T/O Dist. (SL, ISA, MGTOW): 5,000 ft.

Ldg. Dist.(SL, ISA, MLW): 2,880 ft.

Initial Alt.: FL410

Max Alt.: FL450

DOC: $1,492 hr.

Price: $13.50 million


GV

 

[treetop flyer]

I don't fly one, however...

I chatted with some G150 guys the other day. They had one of the first SN#'s off the line. They seemed to enjoy the flying charac. although they did mention that it's somewhat limited performance-wise on shorter runways. I was impressed with the cabin and the cockpit. I didn't get a good look at the baggage, but I assume it's similar to the G100. All in all I was impressed.

TF

 

[jonjuan]

At my last company we demo'd the G150, Soveriegn, LR45xr, and Excel. The G150 had the worst performance with the best and most persistant salespeople. It was a runway hog with less pax and a staggering gap between max T/O wgt and Max Land wgt (3800#'s if I remember correctly). The aircraft has a swept slatted wing with silver BOOTS!! The salespeople were relentless although they do have the industries best customer service hands down!! The XLS has better range with 7 pax +20C and any Runway less than 6000'. I am not a fan of any G less than 300!!

Good Luck

P.S. The salespeople will convince you that the global annual temp is less than +10C and that it can do 2700nm under any condition. GET THE BOOKS!!

Welcome to Gulfstream sales....LOL We did the same thing-the XLs is 3 pax full fuel and the 45XR 7 pax full fuel, 5,000 freet.

 

[GVFlyer]

The following are the specifications for the Lear 45XR (source Bombardier).

General

Capacity

Crew: 2
Passengers: Up to 8 + 1

Engines

Honeywell TFE731-20-BR
Thrust: 3,500 lb (15.56 kN)
Flat rated to: ISA + 25°C (104°F)


PERFORMANCE

Range

Maximum range: 2,087 NM
(IFR Reserves, ISA, with 4 pax/2 crew)

Maximum range:1,985 NM
(IFR Reserves, ISA, with 8 pax/2 crew)

Speed Mach kt

High-speed 0.81 465

Typical cruise speed 0.81 465

Long-range speed 0.75 432

Airfield Performance

Takeoff distance (SL, ISA, MTOW): 5,040 ft

Landing distance (SL, ISA, MLW): 2,660 ft

Operating Altitude

Maximum operating altitude: 51,000 ft (15,545 m)

Climb to cruise altitude of 43,000 ft after MGTOW departure: 25 min

DIMENSIONS

Exterior

Length: 57.6 ft

Wingspan: 47.78 ft

Wing area: 311.6 ft2

Height overall: 14.13 ft

Interior

Cabin length: 19.75 ft (from cockpit divider to end of pressurized compartment)

Cabin width: 5.12 ft (centerline)
Cabin width: 3.1 ft (floorline)

Cabin height: 4.92 ft

Floor area: 62 ft2 (excluding cockpit)

Cabin volume: 410 ft3 (from cockpit divider to end of pressurized compartment)

Weights

A. Maximum ramp weight: 21,750 lb

B. Maximum takeoff weight: 21,500 lb

C. Maximum landing weight: 19,200 lb

D. Maximum zero fuel weight: 16,000 lb

E. Typical basic operating weight: 13,890 lb

F. Maximum fuel weight: 6,062 lb

Maximum payload (D-E): 2,110 lb

Payload – maximum fuel (A-E-F): 1,798 lb (816 kg)

Fuel with maximum payload: 5,750 lb


GV

 

[GVFlyer]

I had to go to Conklin & deDecker for operating costs and purchase price.

Lear 45XL price: $11.15 million

DOC: $1,401 hr.


They state that Bombardier's claim about interior volume is inflated They give the Lear 45XL 386 cu. ft. of cabin and a total of 65 cu. ft. of baggage space.

They also give the Lear a bit less range (ISA,SL, MGTOW, 4 Pax):

Range @ normal cruise - 1,871 nm

Range @LRC - 1,873 nm.

C&deD also assumes that Mach 0.76 is a more typical normal cruise and that most operator's use Mach 0.73 for LRC.





GV

 

[CRAZY LEGS]

I had to go to Conklin & deDecker for operating costs and purchase price.

Lear 45XL price: $11.15 million

DOC: $1,401 hr.


They state that Bombardier's claim about interior volume is inflated They give the Lear 45XL 386 cu. ft. of cabin and a total of 65 cu. ft. of baggage space.

They also give the Lear a bit less range (ISA,SL, MGTOW, 4 Pax):

Range @ normal cruise - 1,871 nm

Range @LRC - 1,873 nm.

C&deD also assumes that Mach 0.76 is a more typical normal cruise and that most operator's use Mach 0.73 for LRC.





GV

I ran a few flight plans for the LR-45 using HSC, M76, and LRC using todays conditions to give some examples of block times and fuel burns. I picked CRQ because it is a popular destination and a balance field limited runway of 4900 ft. Elevation 326' feet

Flaps 20

V1 114
VR 114
V2 123

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]KCRQ [/FONT][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]171653Z 12006KT 10SM CLR 24/02 A3009 RMK AO2 SLP187 T02390017 [/FONT]

Plugging these conditions into ultra-nav for a LR45 BR I came up with a balanced field takeoff limitation of 21000 lbs. (max t.o weight is 21,500)

What does 21000 lbs get you in a LR-45

Figuring a typical BOW of 14,100 (typical BEW's run around 13,700)
5 passengers @ 200lbs each including bags = 15,100 lbs
6000 pounds of gas = Ramp weight 21,100 lbs
100 lbs for taxi= takeoff weight 21,000 lbs

So, lets look at a flight to IAD

Using todays conditions for Mach .76 (TAS 440 kts) at FL450, you would average a 50 knot tailwind and take 4.2 hrs to make the flight. landing with about 1300 lbs.

At LRC (avg. TAS 428 kts) you would take all of 4.3 hours hours to make the trip, landing with about 1400 lbs.


AT HSC (TAS 468 kts) you would take 4 hours and land with about 1100 lbs.


You could improve on these fuel burns by step climbing and running the AFM profile but i just figured the whole thing at FL450 since it is an eastbound flight. But as you can see, LRC to HSC doesn't make a dramatic difference for a 2000 nm flight with a tailwind.


I'd aprecciate it if someone could post some G150 numbers for these conditions.

 

[hawkerjet]

They would have to extend the runway at CRQ to the beach for that trip.

 

[ultrarunner]

Going into IAD I would think 1400 lbs would be min fuel in GOOD wx to run the profile on this day.

 

[hawkerjet]

We were looking at the G150 also. Red flags went up when Net Jets cancelled their order and subsequently found out it was due to the G150's poor performance. I met Gulfstream at the LGB regional forum and had them flight plan a typical round robin for us. I will agree that their sales people are very agressive but you can tune all that out by talking directly with their technical staff. For instance our typical round robin was VNY-VGT, VGT-GTU, GTU-VNY. I gave the tech reps the temps and pax loads after my first round robin from the salespeople had our cruise altitude at 370 for the VNY-VGT leg. I stated I needed 7-8 pax and 104 Degrees F for the mission which are typical temps from June -Sept. The answer was NO, the G150, nor the G200 can do this. Nice plane if you're based at LAX and fly to EWR a lot. In their defense, not that many planes can do this mission, some that could were the CL 300, Legacy, GII,III,IV, CL604 and Falcon 900, 50. as you can see, if we want to stay at VGT year round it'll cost us. Or we could continue doing what we are currently doing, going to LAS instead of VGT and AUS instead of GTU during the summer months.

 

[sleepy]

Get the Sovereign, it looks to have the best bang for the buck in that group.

 

[GVFlyer]

Get the Sovereign, it looks to have the best bang for the buck in that group.

Great short field performance, T/O: 3,640 ft. (SL, ISA, MGTOW), good cabin at 620 cu. ft, but sloowww.

Normal cruise: Mach 0.72

LRC: Mach 0.67

Mmo: Mach 0.80

At $15.48 million, it's also a bit pricier than the other jets that have been considered here.


GV

 

[falcon50sic]

Love the sovereign as well but the boss thinks it's too big of airplane. It's short field and climb ability is awesome and cruises the sames as our excel.

Got the rental engine on our plane yesterday so were up and running again.
Definitely enjoyed the unexpected week of vacation! Thanks again for all of the info.

Anyone heard delivery dates for the XLS+?