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Future Jetblue Bases?

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bolterbolter

Member
Joined
Sep 7, 2003
Posts
11
I am interviewing for JBLU on Oct. 14th. I am curious to hear from the JBLU guys, what future bases might be on the horizon?

Also, would it be easy to live in Burlington VT or San Diego (yeah, I know, two extremes) if you were working at JBLU?

Also, does any Jetblue guy live in DC right now, and how is the commute?

Thanks
 
bolterbolter said:
I am interviewing for JBLU on Oct. 14th. I am curious to hear from the JBLU guys, what future bases might be on the horizon?

Also, would it be easy to live in Burlington VT or San Diego (yeah, I know, two extremes) if you were working at JBLU?

Also, does any Jetblue guy live in DC right now, and how is the commute?

Thanks

As far as the near future LGB is about the only thing happening. The LGB base bid was posted recently and goes into effect November 1st I believe. There have been rumors of BOS and MCO but not in the near future, meaning 2 years or more. The EMB190 will have an impact as well and will open up more opportunities.

Burlington and San Diego are both very commutable online. We have a few folks that live in both. I suspect that most of the SAN folks bid LGB base. As far as DC, I do know we have probably a dozen or two folks living there. The only way to commute from DC online is through FLL, LGB, or OAK. FLL is pretty senior so I wouldn't bank on getting there initially. As far as offline J/S to NY, maybe some of the DC guys can answer up.

Hope this helps and don't forget to get ALL of your questions answered at the interview. I am sure you will get loads of info.

Good Luck!!
 
Bolter squared,

Use US Air's shuttle from DCA to LGA. They've got a liberal jumpseat policy (as many as there are open seats in the back). And they're flying the bus too (more seats available).

The transpo from LGA to JFK is about $15 by cab and a 25 min ride. You can take public transpo at probably $5 but the time is probably an hour (I'm guessing) for the bus transfers, etc.

You can use Delta as back up from DCA to LGA. American uses regional jets I believe and that can be costly for the jumpseat availability, especially during the holidays.

Or UAL out of IAD also using mostly regional jets I think.

Hope that helps. Happy landings,
 
Thanks for the reply.

What's the policy of jumpseating on JBLU? ie. IAD-JFK? Do you have to pay?

And is LGB going super senior?

One last question since you mentioned EMB-190, any hint of the pay rate yet?
 
jointops said:
American uses regional jets I believe and that can be costly for the jumpseat availability, especially during the holidays.
Or UAL out of IAD also using mostly regional jets I think.

American Eagle uses regional jet service DCA-JFK, but are usually full, so getting the JS (for a cabin seat only) is an iffy proposition at times. ACA (UAL Exp) flies IAD-JFK, but only in J31's, and usually can't take a JS-er due to weight restrictions. Best bet is DCA-LGA on USAirways Shuttle with it's liberal JS policy and utilization of A319/320s, then $15 transport to JFK (many 'Blue commuters from the DC area).


bolterbolter said:
One last question since you mentioned EMB-190, any hint of the pay rate yet?

We addressed that very question in Indoc recently. We were told there's been NO decision made (they are aware of the "rumors" out there), but whatever is decided will be fair and representative of the capacity for the E190.

Hope this helps.

DL
 
Bolter,

Well I don't want to confuse your question, so I'm assuming you're asking about off line jumpseating. There is almost never a cost associated with jumpseating with another carrier in the domestic arena. I consider Puerto Rico domestic in this case. This is a benefit and a privilege in the industry.

In certain cases, some airlines like AirTran will take another airline employee (but I think they still have the 1 jumpseat per flight rule) not as a jumpseater but with a nominal cost $15 or so. Don't quote me on their policy since I haven't been on them for a while.

If you're jumpseating on line out of IAD, JB 320 was saying the only way to get to JFK from IAD is via FLL or LGB or OAK. We have no direct flights from IAD to JFK. Hence the reason I put all the other carrier info on my original response. You'll want to use someone else our of IAD instead of flying to FLL to get to JFK.

LGB is middle of the road. Super senior at the top end and very junior at the bottom end. Productivity isn't as high, so many folks want to see how things are going to progress first before the move. Plus, we're not certain exactly how many reserve pilots we'll have out there. As it stands now, definitely 5 reserves but rumor has it to almost 10 (out of 30 for each seat).

Pay rates have been addressed on other threads, but the general consensus is that they'll be in the neighborhood of 2/3 the A/B pay. Those pay rates have also been addressed on other threads in case you want those as well.

Hope this helps,
Happy landings
 
Speaking of the EMB-190, when I do my little spreadsheet, if I am lucky enough to got hired through the Oct 14th class, by my rough calculation, if growth rates stay the way they are, I could still be an A/B Capt, but it would take till Sept 2005. Would you Jetblue guys concur?

When do people start training for the EMB-190? Its on the property summer '05, right?

Thanks for the help
 
bolterbolter,

To start with the commuting. My recent experience has been that ACA from IAD to JFK is almost impossible. IAD - LGA is almost the same. There are seven J41 flights to JFK but are almost always over sold or have seats with a lot of standbys. (many ACA and United employees commute to NY) If there are seats, the ACA guys are great and will try their best to get you on. Also, ACA along with US Airways offer unlimited JS's based on the number of seats available in the cabin. On a good note, I saw that the CRJ is going to replace the morning J41 to JFK. There are a number of IAD-LGA flights with at least one being operated by UAL which will limit the number of JS's. The others are either the J41 or CRJ. The best and easiest bet is US Airways from DCA. Great policy, great guys and usually a few seats left for us freeloaders. However, use caution on Saturday as the hourly service goes to every other hour on this day. The flights are usually full with standbys. Hope this helps!

I don't know that I am at liberty to discuss what I've been told the plan is for the 190. Not that I'm in the know but I have discussed it with some that are. I can say that the "plans" are encouraging as far as commuting/not commuting goes.

Your calculations are probably very close but that would be based on your starting in October. I just flew with a one year FO that said he has another 4-6 months yet. So I would expect the upgrade to stretch out a little more until the 190's start coming. We are still planning an August 2005 deliver of our first 190 so you would expect the training to begin by June '05.

I hope some of this helps. Good luck with the interview!
 
Hey guys/gals. What base(s) are new hires being assigned to these days. I heard, a while back, that FLL was jr for FO's. Has this changed? Is it possible to get FLL right out of ground school? Thanks and good luck to all on Oct. 14th. :D
 
FLL Base

FeelingBlue said:
Hey guys/gals. What base(s) are new hires being assigned to these days. I heard, a while back, that FLL was jr for FO's. Has this changed? Is it possible to get FLL right out of ground school? Thanks and good luck to all on Oct. 14th. :D

The junior most F/O in FLL is #584 according to my info. Assuming you get hired (wishing you luck BTW) you would be about #750 =/- so there are roughly 170 F/O's ahead of you inline for FLL potentially. So, my guess would be that you could more than likely not be assigned FLL right away. Anything is possible but the FLL base flying would have to increase quite a bit before any slots would open up. A lot of "if's" if you know what I mean.

Didn't mean to dash your hopes on the rocks but I hope it answered your question.

Looks like it is JFK for you in all likelihood. Better than a sharp stick in the eye for sure.

See ya and Good Luck on 10/14.

JB320
 
Thanks for the info. No hopes dashed here at all. :D I'm not sure that jetBlue could come up with a base that I would not commute to or possibly move to. JFK would be like a homecoming anyway as I am a born and raised New Yorker. I'm just hoping to have the opportunity to work for jetBlue, the details of where are unimportant. I was just curious. Thanks again.
 
BolterBolter
I was a Navy guy and find the commute from San Diego very comfortable. Still being relatively junior (mar-03) I am able to bid skeds that have 3 trips per month at 5 days each. In Nov I will give the LGB base a try and see how that works knowing I will be on reserve for quite a while.
-Best of luck!
 
viking737 said:
bolterbolter.
Are you getting furloughed from AA?
Or are you actually leaving a major to go to JBLU?

I know you may find this apalling but we actually have quite a few (if not alot) of pilots here now from "the majors". Not only furloughed folks, but many with quite a bit of seniority that were not even close to being furloughed. I personally know of three recent new hires that had over 15 years each with their respective previous airlines. After talking to them I was given various reasons for their departure from their careers. Like "handwriting was on the wall", "ready for a change", "you guys rock", and a few complimentary others.

And, not that it matters, jetBlue will be a "major" by definition in 2004, for what it's worth.

See ya
 
You can add me to the list of major airline guys who are coming to jetBlue, and I for one can't wait to start! My old employer is one of the "healthier" companies in the industry, FWIW.

Pass the ragweed please.
 
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LOL

zonker said:
You can add me to the list of major airline guys who is coming to jetBlue, and I for one can't wait to start! My old employer is one of the "healthier" companies in the industry, FWIW.

Pass the ragweed please.


Zonker,

Thanks for the chuckle Pal, welcome aboard!!

Let me guess. CAL?

I know I know, what gave it away, right?

See ya online.
 
I am sure JetBlue "rocks", but I find it hard to understand why
you would give up 15 or more years of seniority at one company
to join an upstart.
I think I will stick it out and hope for the best.
Good luck to bolterbolter and zonker!
 
zonker said:
You can add me to the list of major airline guys who are coming to jetBlue, and I for one can't wait to start! My old employer is one of the "healthier" companies in the industry, FWIW.

Pass the ragweed please.

That's right, we are ALL smoking ragweed over here. LOL!
 
jetblue320 said:
I know you may find this apalling but we actually have quite a few (if not alot) of pilots here now from "the majors".

So very true!!! :D

viking737 said:
I am sure JetBlue "rocks", but I find it hard to understand why
you would give up 15 or more years of seniority at one company
to join an upstart.
I think I will stick it out and hope for the best.
Good luck to bolterbolter and zonker!

Some things are just more important to others. For me it was an easy decision to go to a company with a proven business plan and a value system I happen to share. It's simply a personal choice.

All the best,

DL :)
 
Yes, I am a pilot for a major, one of big four, who is not getting furloughed, but am really excited by the jetblue story.

One thing though that is starting to get my attention; your stock price is really getting high, so the strike price for the options for new guys would be around 60-four, three and two times higher than the "old guys." Which would mean my package would be: 1/4, 1/3 and 1/2 smaller than if I would have been hire sooner. Since jetblue is growing superfast, you'd be like a middle level LUV guy who won't see the stock appreciation like the old guys.

There's far more to jetblue than money, I understand that, but when you are make a jump like that, you want to make sure that you don't make a dumb mistake.

And I understand that my airline could tank, I get all that, but your stock price, since its such a major part of your compensation and "retirement," is something I really need to understand.

My view, your company was doing great, and with the announcement of the EMB-190, your stock doubled because it is such a bright move. Seeing ERJ-145 and Canadiar's flying around, you see how much better the EMB-190 will be.
 
JBLU

Bolter X2,

Yes, the stock price is high right now and yes, that is a big part of the decision process to make a major move. However, the secret is in the timing if your stock option strike price is your main concern. Most certainly the stock will split very soon. I am not an insider (officially) but I am on the inside and I would reckon that it will be before the end of the year. In some respects, it might be a wash if you hire on with a high strike price and then the split follows shortly after. Rumor has it the split might be 3/1 this time!

Example 1:

You have a grant date of 12/1/03 with 6000 options @ $60.
The "value" of this grant is $360,000 and will cost you the same to exercise it all. On 12/15/03 the stock splits 2/1. You now have 12,000 shares @ $30 each or the same value of $360,000. Hopefully the stock rises back to it's original $60 per share soon (in it's short 17 month history it has done it once already) and then your value is $720,000. But regarldess of how many splits follow or what the ratio is your price to exercise your entire portfolio will remain at $360,000. Your strike price is now cut in half to $30 per share.


Example 2:

The stock is $60 and splits 2/1 on 12/15/03. You hire on with a grant date of > 12/15/03. You will be granted 6000 shares @ $30 per share which will have a value of $180,000 and cost you the same to exercise them all. Assuming the price rises to $60 as in Example 1, your value will rise to $360,000 which is half of the value of $720,000 but you only paid half as much for it. And again, it will always cost you $180,000 to exercise this portfolio example regardless of how many splits or the ratio of them. Your strike price will remain at $30 per share until the next split and will be adjusted accordingly.

The "wash" I spoke of is in how you cycle in. In example one, your portfolio is at a greater value initially, but cost you more over the life of it. In example two, you have to wait out one more split than in example one, but it cost you half as much for it. The best advice I can give you is to seek professional advice from someone who know about options, specifically Incentive Stock Options (ISO). Those are the kind that JB issues. The only bad part of seeking advice from a Pro is that they won't make the decision for you, which is what we REALLY want. Unless your advice comes from a qualified close friend. Even then, they probably want to stay friends! :D


I know you are probably a smart saavy guy that already knew the basics so please don't think I was trying to insult you with my elementary examples. I wasn't. I was just making a point.

The secret is in the cycle you fall into. Your statement about us "old JB guys" is true. Our stuff was a much better deal. But then again, it was a much greater gamble. It could have turned out to be worthless. Heck, wait until all the JB Bashers out there get ahold of this post and I assure you lots of them will chime in and say they WILL be worthless. Well, maybe there are right, maybe they aren't. One thing IS for sure. JBLU stock has defied every known current principal of the stock market. Every analyst will tell you that it is overrated, under valued, and a whole lot of other things. If that is so then why is it one of the hottest things out there? And, if you ask them off the record if they personally own any JBLU I would bet they do, or have and made a bundle!

Please bear in mind that in my examples above that the options do have a vesting schedule and other tax liabilities and limitations. Your mileage may vary...you know....:(

One thing is for sure, almost every JBLU guy that I talk to routinely (and that is a lot of them) they all say it boils down to one thing regardless of your strike price, they all say "Hey, it's free money".

If you really get scared thinking it's going to tank, sell what you can when you vest and walk away with it. That's the beauty of it, it's yours once you vest. Not under someone else's control like in a lot of the other airline pensions.

Hope this gives you some insight.

C Ya :cool:
 
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Bolter,

The split was 3 for 2 last year.

I live in DC and the commute isn't too bad to NY. It is great going out of DCA with US Airways. As said before, it usually gets dicey out of IAD with ACA's J41s and CRJs because of the smaller aircraft which are usually overbooked. Going to NY if I'm not concerned about time of arrival (i.e. flying the next day) then I will try ACA out of IAD to JFK or LGA. If I have to get there that day to fly later that day then I just go to DCA-LGA so I won't have to stress the commute. Going back to DC, JFK Terminal 7 is a pain in the rear but the gate agents are super when you finally get there and they will try their best to get you on. If I travel over to LGA to get home then I just go US Air to DCA. I usually travel DCA-LGA and LGA-DCA at least 70% of the time versus IAD-NYC and NYC-IAD just to relieve the commuting stress. You always have a 4-5hr drive to NY in your hip pocket as a last resort - luckily, I haven't had to use this option yet!

Hope this helps and good luck,

TUPAK
 
Here's some analysis from an Amatuer.

JBLU's Market Cap is 4 Billion

LUV's Market CAP is 14 Billion

LUV has about 400 jets right now. JBLU wants to grow to 400 jets.

So lets say JBLU equals LUV's market Cap. That'd be about a 3.5 fold increase. If JBLU's stock price right now is 60, and its going to increase 3.5 times to equal LUV's market Cap, that'd be a pre-split price of 210.

Assuming a strike price of 60, and a gain of 210, you would see an appreciation of 150. 150 x 6000 options equals 900,000 dollars. Again, that's when it equals LUV in 2011 (yeah, I know that LUV has got expansion plans) but I am just comparing similar sized companies.

So, for guys/gals getting hired right now, you are probably looking at a retirement roughly valued at 900,000. For you early lucky guys, double and triple that.

So, measure your retirement at where you're at now, and compare.
 
Split

JetBlue Airways sets 3-for-2 stock split
Tuesday October 7, 9:13 am ET

CHICAGO, Oct 7 (Reuters) - Low-cost air carrier JetBlue Airways Corp., one of the few U.S. airlines to post consistent profits since the Sept. 11 attacks, on Tuesday declared a three-for-two split of its high-flying stock.

New shares will be distributed on Nov. 20 to shareholders of record on Nov. 10.

The stock, which has been publicly traded for only 18 months, has risen sharply from its initial price of $27 as the New York company has capitalized on its low-cost structure to fuel rapid growth, often at the expense of major carriers.

JetBlue recently suffered a public relations black eye, when it admitted having shared passenger data with a Pentagon contractor. Lawsuits are pending.

But JetBlue, like its bigger low-cost model Southwest Airlines continues with expansion plans, last week announcing it would begin service to Boston.

JetBlue has maintained a cost advantage through several factors, including a nonunionized labor force and flying only one type of plane, the Airbus A-320. But the airline recently announced an order for 100 Embraer 190 aircraft with options for another 100.

The order was a sharp contrast to fleet plans set by the major U.S. carriers, which are either holding steady or continuing to pare back their aircraft holdings.

JetBlue stock closed on Monday at $67.53 on the Nasdaq after touching an all-time high of $67.91.
 
bolterbolter said:
Here's some analysis from an Amatuer.

JBLU's Market Cap is 4 Billion

LUV's Market CAP is 14 Billion

LUV has about 400 jets right now. JBLU wants to grow to 400 jets.

So, for guys/gals getting hired right now, you are probably looking at a retirement roughly valued at 900,000. For you early lucky guys, double and triple that.

So, measure your retirement at where you're at now, and compare.

BolterX2,

I trimmed some of your post but only to make a point. I think your math is a bit off perhaps. I wouldn't get too deep into market caps because although they may directly effect the stock price over a given period and other merrill lynch jargon, the "retirement" you refer to is quite simple. Your shares will continue to multiply with each split. Your strike price is reduced accordingly but your cost to exercise all your options will remain the same. Example: an original JB pilot had 6000 shares at a $1 each, it split 3/2 in Dec. 2002, now he has 9000. It splits again in Nov. 2003 3/2 and he has 13,500 shares. Shortly after the split the price rises to $68 (like it was today) and he has $900,000 in portfolio value (assuming he sells it all upon vesting). He waits out 3 more splits of 3/2 and it is valued at $3,098,250 assuming the stock price stays at $68. If you throw a single 2/1 split in the mix you are looking at $5 million. A far cry from $900,000. It will always cost him $6000 to exercise these options. The new guys, well, they don't have such a low strike price for sure but that means they might have to sweat out a few more splits to retire. Their cost might range from $150,000-$300,000 to exercise them all but in the grand scheme, it's still PDG [pretty darn good]. The old guys already did their sweating in the early days wondering if we would ever get off the ground.

Is my math a bit far fetched? Perhaps, but only time will tell. The math is correct, the future of stocks will always be a mystery. Remember, life is a box of chocolates. (Gosh I loved that movie).

See ya
 
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What jetblue320 said is correct. It is really the purchase price that makes the difference. For example, if it costs jetblue 320 about $6000 for his current 9000 shares and my 9000 shares cost $206,000 then we will always have a $200,000 difference in total value. That won't change.

So, several years from now, if jetblue320 has not sold any shares and has 1,000,000 worth of stock then I would have 800,000 in value. He could more readily afford to purchase and hold the shares which is very nice but overall value will always be 200K. So, if someone comes on now and the difference is 500K well, that will be it, they will always have a total stock options value 500K less than those that were here at the start.

Certainly fair in my opinion as those that came on early risked more.
 

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