Future at Pinnacle

[Mel Sharples]

I have a friend at Pinnacle and we were talking about the future of his airline. He wasn't sure how this was all going to work out. We agreed that that it looks very bright but. . .

NWA will eventually do something to turn up the heat like they did at Mesaba (Avros leaving, etc.). Hopefully this won't happen for a while. My question for Pinnacle pilots: Is there anything that you know of to prevent NWA from giving CRJ's on order (or even delivered) to Mesaba, or someone else for that matter? My friend didn't seem to know. From what I understand, NWA owns the planes just like they do at Mesaba so I assume they can move them at will. I think that is b.s., but I also think that is reality.

I can just see that announcement: "Oh, Pinnacle needs a contract and it looks like NWA is giving away your planes." Don't fall for it. Heck, they will probably try to give you back Saabs for that matter.

Also, it seems scope is the issue of the day. How do you guys think they will push it at your company? Form a holding company? Something else?

Just wondering what you guys all think. Hopefully you can get a good contract without all the games that Mesaba had to play. I hope this work out for you. Be prepared to stick it to 'em!

 

[DoinTime]

Pinnacle is guaranteed 129 CRJ's from NW. These can only be reduced in the event of a work stoppage. Any additional CRJ's over the 129 are to stay at Pinnacle unless we violate the terms of our agreement. All this information is available in the prospectus that came out prior to the IPO. I believe it can still be found on the Morgan Stanely website.

 

[Mel Sharples]

I'm gonna show my ignorance here so bear with me...

What's to stop NWA from moving the planes like they did at Mesaba? Saying, we want them here instead of there?

Like I said before, I hope it doesn't happen but how can Pinnacle keep planes it doesn't own? Are the terms of the sale that binding? (This is where my ignorance comes in...)

I'm just surprised they could move Mesaba's Avros around like pawns but the CRJ's couldn't be. Is that really true?

Thanks for the insight and I apologize again for not knowing the legaleeze of this stuff.

 

[DoinTime]

I'm gonna show my ignorance here so bear with me...

What's to stop NWA from moving the planes like they did at Mesaba? Saying, we want them here instead of there?

Like I said before, I hope it doesn't happen but how can Pinnacle keep planes it doesn't own? Are the terms of the sale that binding? (This is where my ignorance comes in...)

I'm just surprised they could move Mesaba's Avros around like pawns but the CRJ's couldn't be. Is that really true?

Thanks for the insight and I apologize again for not knowing the legaleeze of this stuff.

Our service agreement provides the guarantees on fleet size and justifiable reasons for aircraft reallocation. I'm not well versed in Mesaba's service agreement but I do know NW had an escape clause to take the Avro's out of service early.

Pinnacle is not provided with a minimum amount of utilization on their fleet so NW could decide to reduce our flying and PCL management could move the extra aircraft out to the desert. I believe this was the case at Mesaba and it could be repeated here but the aircraft could not be transferred to another carrier while they sat.

 

[xjavro85]

Anything over 129 is to stay at pinnacle?! I highly doubt that. In fact I heard that NWA can knock the number down to 95 at ANY time they feel liek it. Show me otherwise. Anyways, good luck with your contract coming up, NW plays a hard game.

 

[PCL_128]

Anything over 129 is to stay at pinnacle?! I highly doubt that. In fact I heard that NWA can knock the number down to 95 at ANY time they feel liek it. Show me otherwise. Anyways, good luck with your contract coming up, NW plays a hard game.

NWA cannot reduce our number of planes below 129 unless there is a work stoppage. The Air Service Agreement we have with NWA guarantees 129 planes on the property by the end of '05. The only way those planes can be removed is if we go on strike for a set amount of time (I thing it's more than 7 days). I don't have the prospectus anymore, but you can get it through your stock broker or financial advisor if you're interested.

 

[XJXJXJ]

WRONG !

 

[T-Gates]

WRONG !

That was intelligent....

Why don't you back it with some hard info.

 

[avrodriverj85]

Because XJXJXJ is one of the XJ negotiators that sold out for scope, and screwed both the XJ and Pinnacle pilot group in the process.

 

[General Lee]

I heard Skywest might be looking at you to buy you.

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[T-Gates]

I heard Skywest might be looking at you to buy you.

Bye Bye--General Lee

It wouldn't surprise me....

 

[T-Gates]

Because XJXJXJ is one of the XJ negotiators that sold out for scope, and screwed both the XJ and Pinnacle pilot group in the process.

Amen.

It's funny to hear all the people who b!tched about us being mad about the 50 seat rates in your new contract who are now looking for the announcement that XJ will get more of the NWA RJ orders....

 

[XJXJXJ]

You think Pinnacle will get $100 + per hour rate for the 44 like XJ did? Dream on! Pinnacle wont come close to getting XJ payscales and they wont come close to our old 1996 contract in terms of work rules. Wilson showed Scope the #1 priority so the negoiators just did what the pilot group told them to, and no I am not a negoiator.

 

[DoinTime]

XJXJXJ is proof that an idiot is born every minute.

It's a good thing PCL pilots won't have to take it up the a$$ to get scope seeing is that we already have better scope than XJ pilots had to drop their pants for.

 

[XJXJXJ]

Your the one who took it up the A$$ when you bought your job at 9E. You guys sold out big time to get the CRJ's and your ass whoopin is about to begin as you enter contract Neg. soon. All you PFT punks and Gulfstream Kringos will be the last group of clowns to Hold the Line, yet alone raise the bar. You guys will sign a piece of crap contract in a couple years just like you sold out to get the CRJ's. Compare next years hourly rates all you want, but you know for sure how big a piece of crap your current and future contract is and will be! XJ's turn for glory while 9E becomes the ugly redhead stepchild once again and YOU KNOW IT !

 

[PCL Flt-ops]

It's unfortunate that when it all came down to it, Mesaba actually signed a contract with lower CRJ rates than Pinnacle. Talk about "undercutting" us. But even worse, look at their Avro rates - a few dollars more per hour than our CRJ rates and guess what? They are flying 20 - 26 more seats than our 44-seat and 50-seat CRJs (69 total seats). That's around 40 - 50% more total seats. But they don't get paid 40 - 50% more. You guys should be getting Comair 70-seat rates for your Avro rates. You have a bunch of lifers running your MEC who care more about the top end pilots (small percentage). But that's how all commuter airline unions are in my opinion.

The sad thing is that you all took the bait. Hook, line, and sinker!

And NO, you didn't get any good workrules. I can't believe you guys talked so much shi.t and then voted on it. And 66% of you guys voted on it! UNBELIEVABLE.

 

[T-Gates]

Your the one who took it up the A$$ when you bought your job at 9E. You guys sold out big time to get the CRJ's and your ass whoopin is about to begin as you enter contract Neg. soon. All you PFT punks and Gulfstream Kringos will be the last group of clowns to Hold the Line, yet alone raise the bar. You guys will sign a piece of crap contract in a couple years just like you sold out to get the CRJ's. Compare next years hourly rates all you want, but you know for sure how big a piece of crap your current and future contract is and will be! XJ's turn for glory while 9E becomes the ugly redhead stepchild once again and YOU KNOW IT !

I've taken sh!ts with more intellegence than that post.

Sold out to get the CRJ's?! Your payrates are LOWER than ours....now who's the sellout?

I am ashamed to think I supported a pilot group that had assholes like you in it.

 

[XJXJXJ]

For LESS than a year your CRJ rates will be SLIGHTLY higher than our CRJ rates but who really cares?? We don't even have them YET. By the time we get new RJ's our 44-50 rates will surpass yours and each year will get higer and higher than yours. What does your 44 cap out at?? Not even CLOSE to ours! Assuming equal hourly rates our contract is EASILY worth 10-15% more pay than yours and don't even try to defend your pathetic work rules...XJ is in an ENTIRE different league than you PFT clowns! The sell out 9E contract ISN"T EVEN CLOSE to Mesabas OLD 1996 contract so don't even try to argue this one.

 

[alrightythen23]

Enough of the pissing contest fellas!!!

 

[Simon Says]

Once again here we go.

Pinnacle, I plus most other pilots at Mesaba are hoping for the best in your upcoming negotiations. Because what is good for you is good for us and vice versa. Our pay rates are industry average at best. (excluding FO Avro pay). Our work rules are top notch.

For those at Pinnacle that don't know let me explain.

1. We get paid Block or better. That means that if we overfly block by one minute we get paid that one minute. If we underfly block by fifteen minutes we still get the full block. You guys don't have that in fact I believe you have to overfly block by fifteen minutes before you start accumulating overtime. I average an extra hour of pay for every seven hours schedualed.

2. Flight cancellations we get full pay. I believe you guys get half.

3. Time in a half for any junior man event or picking up trips in open time. This is fairly huge for me. I will usually pick up at least a day trip a month and credit an extra 9-11 hours of pay a month. I believe pinnacle doesnt have a time in a half provision.

With just these three work rules we far exceed pay scales from competing regionalsl. So to all, quit comparing pay scales with each other because there is much more to a contract that increases W-2 earnings.