Furloughees - Jealous?

[Treme]

I've been starting to feel this a lot lately and I wonder if anyone else has.

Have any other major-airline furloughees started to feel jealous of pilots who are currently employed by, or who have recently been hired by, companies where you have worked in the past?

i/e... If you used to work at AirTran, and left AirTran to go work for United and were subsequently furloughed. Are you jealous of pilots who are currently working for AirTran or your friends who might be getting hired there?

I cant help but to feel this way, and I was wondering if anyone else had this problem.

 

[sayagain?]

I'm sure a lot of people will chime in on this one. Why would you be jealous of someone taking a job at yor old company? No one forced you to leave did they? It was probably your own decision. You mention leaving Airtran for United. Airtran is doing good now while we all know what shape United is in. Would you still feel jealous if let's say, you left a regional for Airtran?

sayagain?

 

[WrightAvia]

it's a bad time to be out of work in aviation. In fact it's a bad time to be out of work at all.

I know of two pilots that got fired last week. One for theft on job, the other one for insisting a duty time issue was going to keep him from flying (don't flame me for that one...it's what he said and he don't work where I work at).

I know of several guys that are furloughed also. One guy that quit as a CA at a national to be an FO at another national. He got furloghed and eventually had to go back to the original national as an FO. He got furloughed from there also and hasn't worked there since.

Lets just hope the economy picks up soon, so everybody can get back to work or move up in their careers.

 

[tbkane]

I will chime in and probably get blasted, but I am jealous, not of those that are currently working, but of the replacement of the flying I could be doing.

I left ASA to go to DAL. (My choice) I think those at ASA deserve their jobs, but with the hugh expansion all the DAL regionals are seeing, that used to be mainline flying that does irritate me. It is not the pilots fault, but a paradim shift from Delta management.

There needs to be more concern and help from the different managements to try to help the furloughees instead of just straight outsourcing. I can't speak to this but I bet if Southwest had to furlough pilots they would do everything under the sun to try to help them work somewhere if only on the ramp instead of a kick in the butt and a letter every month telling you how much you owe them for your uniform yet.

Anyway go ahead and blast away.

 

[Treme]

Sayagain

Sayagain,

Perhaps in addition to jealousy I should have said regret.

The feeling that, "If I had stayed at AirTran i'd be a 717 captain..."

Yes, I made the decision and i'm willing to live with it. I was just wondering if any other major airline furloughees had the same feelings of jealousy, and pangs of regret.

 

[sayagain?]

In the aviation business and life in general, how many times have we all wished or thought that we would have liked to go back in time and change our decisions?

sayagain?

 

[ACE]

Its all a crap shoot. If your current job is a good one, I say just stay. Don't look at what you could have. Treme, after being out of work for so long its natural to feel jealous. Its all shoud of, could of, would of. You had no way of knowing what was going to happen to you. I wish you luck.

 

[Treme]

Thanks for the kind words. I am really not looking for pity. I'm just frustrated.

I guess I figured that when I started out at my first commuter airline job 11 years ago that things would be pretty good by now.

It saddens me that my career and my family would have been better-off had I stayed at one of the regionals or nationals that I had worked at in the past rather than pursuing a job at a major.

I'm jealous because I see people getting jobs with the same companies where I cut my teeth in the airline industry and enjoying a good, strong, stable career, with good pay, quick upgrades, and lots of opportunity.

Makes me wish I had never left.

I hope that the pilots who are still hoping to move to the majors one day learn something from this whole debacle. Sometimes a bird in the hand...

 

[Beetle007]

I think all decisions should be based on probability. Nothing in life is guaranteed, and sometime life kicks us in the ass. However, whether or not you made the right decision isn't based on what happens in the future. It is based on whether you made an intelligent decision at the time the decision was made. When you left AirTran, you might have made the right decision....so dont feel guilty or have regrets.

We are all playing the odds. If the odds are in our favor ...we made the Right choice. If the odds are 50/50...pick a road and live with it. Life with regrets is no fun...So enjoy it while you can. When things are down, you have no were to go but Up (hopefully.) I am more scared when I am doing well, because I have no where to go but down (hopefully not.) This is my philosophy to keep from going crazy =). Also, you dont know if you made the right decisions during your airline career until you hit age 60.

I heard an interesting story about a guy who had received job offers at both Northwest and Eastern way back in the day. He regreted this decision most of his airline career. He had been furloughed several times, and regreted not going with a more "prosperous" airline. However, as he was nearing retirement in the late 80s, he realized he had made the right decision. A poor decision is one made agaist the odds, not one in which you loose. Like that crazy girl on "For love or money" who is risking 1 million for an extra 1 million. The shows producers have basically told her "double or nothing." The odds are not smart for her. She made a poor decision =)...not you.

 

[AAflyer]

Treme,

You just don't know till you hit age 60. A lot can happen between now and then, who knows what the future will hold?

Look at CAL in 1995, would you have thought they would be were they are now? What about Valu-jet, some of their pilots are now 717 captains for a profitable and growing airline.

Where will AA,DAL,UAL be in 10 years? People speculate but no one knows for sure, for that matter were will JB or Airtrain be?
Look at National,PSA,Eastern,Ozark,Vanguard,Peoples Express, now look at SWA, and UPS. We know what people think or what they hope but THERE ARE NO GURANTEES IN THIS BIZ.

Look at your career as a trans con flight. You will experience beautiful skies, thunderstorms, you will deviate, and may have to divert, you will deal with problems in flight and may hit extreme turbulence, but you will not know how the flight truly was till your mains kiss the tarmac at your destination.

This is a rough time, the industry is changing and NO ONE can truly predict the future. Enjoy your flight!

AA

 

[furlough-boy]

Hindsight is always 20/20

Don't waste too much time fretting over what might of been. You make the best decision you can at the time with the information you have. As they say, tomorrow is another day.

 

[pilot141]

What the last three guys said!

Seriously, as long as you made the best decision you could have with the info available to you at the time....don't sweat it! That's the surest way to drive yourself crazy. If I wanted to beat myself up over decisions I made in the past, I could get a noose ready pretty quick just on my investments alone - but I don't, because that is pretty pointless. Every decision I made was made with the best info I had THEN, and I can't unmake those decisions.

If I could see the future do you think I'd be flying airplanes for a living?!?

Ask the people who used to work for Worldcom, or Arthur Andersen, or Webvan if they made the right decision. This industry is not the only unstable one out there; everyone looks at what is available, takes a deep breath and rolls the dice. Like people have said, you wan't know if you've made the right choice until you set the brakes for the last time. Until then, try to enjoy the ride!

 

[Salty Dog]

Pilot 141 is exactly right.

If you look back on a decision you made with new and different information, that is NOT 20/20 hindsight, it's a different decision!

If you look back and say yep, knowing what I knew then I would make the same decision, then how can you be disappointed w/yourself. That's what your "jealousy" is, by the way, outwardly directed disappointment w/yourself because you think you screwed up. Truth is, unless you failed to consider facts that were blatantly obvious to everyone but you, then you didn't screw anything up.

Those who are still flying w/your old airline or have been hired subsequently aren't smarter than you, or luckier than you. They just made their decision to stay or go based on circumstances different than yours. Different career timing, different goals, probably were wishing they were in your place right up until the axe fell. Who knew?

You can worry or not. Things will get better either way.

 

[buckdanny]

I'm still a low timer, so I really don't know what being furloughed is like.

However, I am certain of one thing: beating yourself up for decisions you made in the past isn't going to make anything better and will only bring you negative feelings. I could probably be a captain at a regional now if I had made other decisions some 8 years ago, especialy around college. But opted for what was right for me AT THAT TIME, just like all of you furloughed pilots made the decision that was right for you AT THE TIME you made it.

It is the attitude I take with everything I chose to do or not to do. I could have graduated sooner from college, and be a captain. But then, I would have missed other things such as spending a semester in Finland. So I look at the positive side: I had a great college experience, better than most people who attend college (and not only because I got to go to Finland, other things too). What matters, is what you decided to do put you in the right seat (or even left for some) at a major. It sucks now, but you accomplished it. That's how I would see it for myself. Jealous of the others who took the job I once had? I don't think I would; I once made to a better position they are now anyway (or so to speak).

The important is in my opinion to look at the positive side always and never look back at past choices. If my glass is half empty, I try to see it as being half full, that's my life philosophy.

Just my $.02

Buck

 

[Av8trxx]

On the subject.....

I remember talking with a pretty senior SWA F/O back in 2000. He was telling me his buddy at UAL was getting him an interview and that he was looking forward to getting on there because he just "couldn't imagine" himself working at Southwest till age 60. (i.e. the multiple legs on one day, no meal service, no long haul widebody flights)

I wonder if that guy ever made it. He would have been a junior SWA Captain by now if he stayed. If not, I wonder if he is jealous....or just kicking himself in the a$$.

 

[furloboy]

I'm just pissed at the guy who sold me my crystal ball. Didn't even mention 9/11.

How different my life would be now.

 

[WrightAvia]

So if it wasn't 9/11 in your crystal ball, but brain cancer, would you be any happier?

 

[TurboS7]

We just had a retirement party for one of our line guys. He had the chance to choose between UAL and EAL in 1965. He choose EAL. He wondered about his decision in 1991, but then he said the last 12 years of flying were the best of his life. It is not all in the money sometimes the people you work with make it all worth while.

 

[-9Capt]

Back in '65 a choice between Eastern and Delta or United would be no choice at all. Eastern was the #1 carrier back then.

I had the choice between AirTran and TWA back in '98. I had offers from both the same week. I had alot of friends at TWA at the time. EVERYONE thought I made the wrong decision by going with AirTran and when AMR bought them, I started to agree with them. You never know.

 

[Draginass]

What a stupid and pointless thread.