Furloughees gettin a 737 type via WIA

[metrodriver]

I was approved for it but then the state gave the program to some private management company and they have a list my furlough company is not on. It's amazing. Some guys I flew with already used the program when the state still had it, and now someone who doesn't know a bit about aviation is making up a list of 'preferred companies'. If I would have been working for Budget car rental, I could have had a type by now. They're on the list! Of course e-mails and phone calls are not being returned.

 

[tathepilot]

Must you be furloughed from an airline to receive wia funding?

 

[b757driver]

No - you don't need to be furloughed. I was laid off when my airline went bust after 2+ years in Chap 11 BK. Any pilot whose company no longer requires his/her services for whatever reason (provided it's downsizing, of course) can apply.
Unfortunately, it is a somewhat subjective process - just like who gets an airline interview and who does not. The scheme - WIA - is a federal program but administered by individual states and then agencies within those states who have the so-called "approved" lists.
The key is to get in quick, get a good counselor who is sympathetic to your cause and one you can work with and then you have to convince them why you need it. A year ago, it was relatively simple. I got in quick after my layoff with others and started jumping thru hoops and filling out paperwork, attending mandatory orientations and tests. At that time the pot was full and it is done on a first come first served basis. I got 100% fundin but as the pot dried others only got 75-80% and then it finally dried up and there was no money left. I don't know the situation now.
Just like getting an airline interview and then getting hired, you have to be persistent. If you find the counselor you have can't tell the difference between a B737 and a C150, you need someone else. Apply in another state, if you are eligible. Collect job postings to back up your case - the more the merrier. Another idea is check your spam mail for those "free government grants available" like Mathew Lesko. These prob require an up-front fee and you do most of the research work.
I had a choice between B737, B747-400 and Gulfstream IV to choose from. While the latter two would have been nice, I chose the B737 for the reasons given earlier. Besides I don't think I could sell them on the idea that the G-IV would cost $28,000!!! I don't think anyone got approved for that unless you had real time on the aircraft plus a "I promise to hire John Doe" letter from a potential employer.
I agree, one of the concerns with the program is which training organization is on the "approved" list. Of course, it's great business for the training schools but they are NOT all equal. While my course and instructors were fine, there never was any kind of feedback or job placement assistance. The sum total of PremAir's "help" was giving student's a handout of all the B737NG/BBJ operators in the world. This turned out to be about two years out of date. Also, their sister company in SEA, Global Aircraft Delivery "were always looking for qualified and current BBJ/737 Captains and FOs" that PremAir students would get preferential hiring consideration and this (ferry/delivery)work would be ideal for "the furloughed, unemployed or retired airline pilot". After 6 months trying to get a foot in the door with them, I found out that this was all B.S. That's why I would not go back - even for a refresher, nor can I recommend them. The others, from what I have heard are FAR better.
Keep trying & good luck

b757driver

 

[tathepilot]

thanks for the info!!

 

[Hansoma]

Has anybody gotten WIA benefits from Washington State? If so, could you give me the low-down? Thanks

 

[b757driver]

Myth #1: If you get a type rating, it will help you be more marketable/competitive


Sorry for being the bearer of bad news but those WIA funds for type ratings are going to be thing of the past, if not already.

Reason: Hundreds of thousands of dollars, if not a few million, were doled out by various states for out-of-work pilots to make themselves more marketable. Not surprisingly, many training organizations saw this as a golden opportunity to make money at taxpayer's expense - Uncle Sam always pays up no matter what!
People were approved, did the training and got their ratings.....BUT.....very few actually got jobs with their "new" certifications. And, as in any business or govt dept, you have to justify cost ie. you expect RESULTS.

Since this whole program is dedicated in helping unfortunate folk find gainful employment, it is not unreasonable to expect maybe a small minority to have gotten work as a result of their training. Well, it seems this has NOT been the case.

So now, most states require a signed letter stating an offer of employment contingent on getting a specific type rating. Note it is a specific letter, not even a provisional offer but a definite offer. Is this Catch-22 or what? What airline/company is going to do that when the norm is to not respond to resumes/cover letters and applications?

I am not the least bit surprised. Apparently some training organizations have been cashing in on "free" govt. money by actively soliciting guys/gals who obtained WIA funding with "promises" of job "assistance/placement/preferences" if they came to their establishment for the rating. It is now a well-known fact that any company touting this angle, is doing so for your business and has no wish to go beyond a purely financial transaction.

How do I know? Because I did all this a year ago and was left hanging - AFTER I had chosen the training provider. My sum total post training help was an out-of-date list of 737/BBJ operators in the world - a list anyone can located on the net. I guess you live and learn.

Good luck to all those that are trying but a few have made it next to impossible for the rest of us.

 

[Mr.B]

It seems you have been in aviation long enough to know (should know) that nothing is a sure thing.

The vast majority of the pilots I know that got the B737WIA type did it for one reason- Southwest. They are not hiring new guys( yet) but when they do, and when we get hired, we'll be sure to let Uncle Sam know it was money well spent.

As my old man said, and as I have had to do several times in this crazy career, quit yer sniveling and get on with it.

 

[b757driver]

Yes, my friend, I know more than most (after 5 layoffs in 12 years) that there IS no sure thing, especially in aviation.

However, I did not do it for SWA - I'm not interested in them as they have another "mandatory" requirement that I do not meet and never will, so why bother? Frankly, I'm not going to wait for ever. I'm a realist and I call a spade a spade. I used to be like you and say, oh well. That sounds so British, just don't make a fuss!!

I just get a bit miffed when they all purport to have various mission statements saying we want you and we value this and that. Bottom line: it's all B.S. !!

I'm only pointing out the inadequacies of this career and some of the scams. People have a right to know. You may accept your lot but a lot of others don't; it's there in the statistics - there's more pilots out of work in the US than at any time in the history of aviation. I for one, am not proud of that fact. My type rating WAS a complete waste of resources - you tell me what good it did me?

Get on with it? You bet I am and it ain't in aviation! In fact, I am out of aviation for good and am a much happier person for it. I have found a satisfying second career that truly values and recognises talent. And best of all, they are a demand occupation with no layoff history.

There comes a time when it is not the individual who has given up on the career but rather, the other way around. When you reach that point, it no longer makes a difference if you are all rah rah and wait to ride out the storm. For me 5 layoffs with no hope the last time, despite phenomenal efforts, tells me it's time to quit. For you, it may take 8 or 10 layoffs before you change your tune. Or...you may get lucky and never have misfortune in your career again. And if that is the case, more power to you.

Like I said, I am pointing out the pitfalls of the airline business. Everybody hypes it up - just go to one of those wannabe Air Inc. seminars. My message is simple. There is currently and for the forseeable future more down side than up side to this business.

 

[LoopsLL]

furloughees getting 737 types

Hi~ I've been furloughed from Hawaiian since October 1st and the state of Washington has NO budget for any type of retraining. I'd be interested to hear what you find out.

Loops

 

[Hagar17]

WIA in Illinois???

Anybody have any info on getting WIA money for IL? I live in another state (based at ORD) and I'm getting furloughed on 2 Mar. I have a potential job offer to fly a Westwind I.

Any info would be appreciated.

Hag