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Full time CFI

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Foobar

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 5, 2003
Posts
114
Its my first day as a full time CFI. I quit the 50K a year desk job to fly full time. I’ve already been a part time CFI for 4 years so I’m starting out burnt out on instruction. I’m hoping I don’t have to do this for more than 6 months or so. I’ve already got just over 900 hours, so it’s a short trip to 1200 or 1500. Hanging out at the airport all day isn’t bad, not getting paid for it is lousy though.

I'm still reading flightinfo all day, just from a new computer.

All in all, its better than the desk job!
 
Logging 'Airport Appreciation Time'

Hey man, as far as I'm concerned, you passed the first test.

You quit your well paying job to hang out at the airport.

I'm serious! You have just separated yourself from thousands of other CFIs.

It's really harsh that this industry requires drastic, risk taking from the ones that should exhibit judicious and temperate decision making.

Oh well.

When I was a full time CFI I got real good at making coffee, doing crosswords, arguing the finer aspects of the FARs and AIM and--most importantly--making future contacts.

This is probably the most important part of being a CFI but nobody ever mentions it.

Forget about Turns About a Point and Traffic Pattern Entries and Holding Patterns.

The keys to succeeding (relative term, I know) in this industry is to be willing to make the required sacrifices *at the right time* and to be connected better than the next guy.

I have ten bucks that says you get your next job because of someone you meet while working as a CFI.

Good luck.
 
I hope you are right about that job! I suppose I can only move up from here.

I'm banking on the job market improving by summer of next year. I'll have a master's degree and almost 1500TT with about 200 Multi. I suppose we will see though.
 
You'll be pushing pretty hard to get 600 hours by next summer. But more power to you if you can.

You should be proud to have taken the plunge to full-time pilot. I think that is why more people don't become pilots. It takes some caj0nes to jump out of a comfy paying job to the murky waters of low pay and high risk. Welcome to the club!
 
It should be easy. I'm figuring 60 hours a month for nine months. I've got 900 now. Even if I have a slow month (December) I'll have well over 1200. I actually think I can fly 70 a month which would put my right at 1500. As long as I hit 1200 I'll be happy, and I think thats an easy goal at about 35 hours a month.
 
I’m hoping I don’t have to do this for more than 6 months or so.

I said that exact same thing three years and 2100 hrs of dual given ago. All I can say is you better like flight instructing...
 
Foobar said:
It should be easy. I'm figuring 60 hours a month for nine months. I've got 900 now. Even if I have a slow month (December) I'll have well over 1200.

"It should be easy"... I've heard that before. I've had CFI's that say yeah I will do 50 hours a month and be out of here in 6 months. Two years later, they are still there.

You just never know what life or your career has in store for you. The only thing I can say is try not to plan your aviation career out like that. Just work hard, and keep at it. Better things will come.

However don't forget that while you may be using instructing as a stepping stone, your are training students that will be pilots (hopefully) for the rest of their lives... make them capable and safe pilots.
 
generaltso said:
However don't forget that while you may be using instructing as a stepping stone, your are training students that will be pilots (hopefully) for the rest of their lives... make them capable and safe pilots.

EXACTLY... Too many CFI's out there that fly with only one instrument in their scan... :eek:

The Hobbs Meter... :rolleyes:

Pretty sad... :(
 
Flight instruction is not about you
It is about the student,
when you realize that it will not be just another job.
It is about you making a difference
Good Luck
 
Foobar said:
Its my first day as a full time CFI. I quit the 50K a year desk job to fly full time. I’ve already been a part time CFI for 4 years so I’m starting out burnt out on instruction.
I remember when I left my day job for full-time instructing at ERAU. I had already done some part-time instructing in CAP. I had always associated flying with leisure time, so, when I went to work at Riddle I never felt that I was "working"!

It's all about attitude.
 
The keys to succeeding (relative term, I know) in this industry is to be willing to make the required sacrifices *at the right time* and to be connected better than the next guy.

Gee. Mar and I agree.

Again.

I had planned on flying 70 hours a month when I took a full time CFI job. I never flew more than 60 in my very best month.

I predict that you will find yourself instructing longer than you are anticipating. That isn't necessarily a bad thing, either.
 
TB and mar: from the same mold?

Wow. TB...what are we up to now? Twice? Thrice?

Yeah! <pumps fist in air>

So, like I was saying, networking is the hidden treasure of flight instructing, but I agree with all the posters who assert the first priority is the student and the lesson.

Your career aspirations should take a back seat during that very expensive 1.2 or 1.5 hour lesson.

Sorry if I wasn't perfectly clear about that.

I just hate it when someone feels that instructing is a 'last resort' type of option.

There are many benefits besides the free coffee.
 
Yep.

You get to read the paper, find neat places on the net (like I did when I was shown the old flightinfo board by a student) and go over lesson plans. I'd do it again if I had the chance, but neither myself nor my old instructor can find teaching jobs.

If you have a flying job, ANY flying job, consider yourself fortunate. After all, you could be a voice over actor.

Or a paralegal. :D
 
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Two of my most positive flights where I recieved instruction, were a rental checkout in an old Aztec and a rental checkout in a C-182.

The kid really made me feel at home with that old contraption of an Aztec. It was one of those short nose, apache looking Aztecs, with all the bells, whistles and levers in all the wrong places.

And a Cfi that I knew in GRB, that knew I had a ton of 182 time flying jumpers, but realized we had to go up and do SOMETHING to make the 182 checkout worthwhile.

Both of these guys were really great. I wish the best of luck to them.

I have also had some really good experiences with the PanAm sim people down in MEM. Those guys are full time CFI's and are very professional. I always look forward to flying with them.

Now those jaggoff CFIs at the 141 school I went to...hahahaha. One of my crappy instructors eventually went to Florida Gulf Airlines and washed out in training. Another one of those son of a major airline pilot, born to fly heavy metal jerks. He could tell you what page number every FAR was.
 
Yeah man, screw the students, just log time no matter what. Thats what I was saying!

Or could it be that the pay stinks but its ok because the hours and prestige make up for it.

I don't punish my students for a crappy system. I have run a few off though explaining that the training will be 20 to 30 thousand dollars. Then you can work as a CFI for 12,000.00 a year, then you can work as a FO for an airline for free or 20,000.00 a year if yer lucky! And then maybe you'll make a livable wage if you picked an airline that stays in business long enough.
 
Aviation employment

Timebuilder said:
If you have a flying job, ANY flying job, consider yourself fortunate. After all, you could be a voice over actor.

Or a paralegal. :D
True. As I wrote above, I enjoyed what I was doing at ERAU, and I could hardly believe that I was "working." Moreover, consider that there are tons of people who would love to be in your shoes, working as a pilot, which you still are as a CFI. As we all know, some would even pay for the privilege.

Be happy you are finally employed full-time in aviation.
 
Foobar said:
Its my first day as a full time CFI. I quit the 50K a year desk job to fly full time. I’ve already been a part time CFI for 4 years so I’m starting out burnt out on instruction. I’m hoping I don’t have to do this for more than 6 months or so. I’ve already got just over 900 hours, so it’s a short trip to 1200 or 1500. Hanging out at the airport all day isn’t bad, not getting paid for it is lousy though.

I'm still reading flightinfo all day, just from a new computer.

All in all, its better than the desk job!

RIP, is that you?
 
Foobar said:
Its my first day as a full time CFI. I quit the 50K a year desk job to fly full time. I’ve already been a part time CFI for 4 years so I’m starting out burnt out on instruction. I’m hoping I don’t have to do this for more than 6 months or so. I’ve already got just over 900 hours, so it’s a short trip to 1200 or 1500. Hanging out at the airport all day isn’t bad, not getting paid for it is lousy though.

I'm still reading flightinfo all day, just from a new computer.

All in all, its better than the desk job!

You and me are in the same boat as a full time CFI. Got one INTRO FLIGHT at 4pm today...showed up at the airport at 9am. hehe. I'll be a weather channel whore today I guess and post on here =P
 
Nope, I'm not RIP. My goal is to be at a regional airline next year sometime. It might happen, it might not. It mostly depends on the industry and how much hiring is going on. I suspect things will stay the same for some time to come though.

I've got a few years of part time CFIing under my belt so if I stick to full time for 8 months its probably about the same as having instructed full time for 2 years or so.
 
I'd recommend a non-aviation degree, but see if you can't do an aviation minor. take a couple of aerodynamics courses, some meteorology, systems, performance, navigation, airline operations, aviation safety, CRM... Whatever the school offers, see if you can't negotiate a minor.

I started instructing about in may of 02 thinking I'd maybe do it till September... HA HA HA... Then I thought, well maybe by November I'll have something.... OH NO... A year and a half later I'm thinking maybe by November I'll hear something... SIGH... PLEASE?!?! Keep your hopes up, leave at least one toe on the ground.

But you know, I've met really great people. I've instructed amazing pilots, and not so amazing ones. I don't think I can even begin to say how much I have learned from my students. I have had a lot of fun instructing, sure it's tough in the winter, and the 14 hour days are hard, but in the end it's worthwhile.

Good luck to you!
 
Holy backup plan batman. Yeah, I'll have a Master's degree in Engineering so I've got a backup plan.

I tell people its easy to find any job as a pilot, but finding a good one, thats not so easy.

I'm not going to training for free, I think Northwest Airlink has that deal going, and I'm not paying anybody any money for a job. If they start out treating you like crap, its not likely to improve later on.

All that said, it seems like a 50/50 chance that I'll find a job at Comair or some place like that with an actual retirement system and an actual paycheck while you are in training.

So this probably belongs in the regional section, but which regionals pay you while in training?
 
I am about to pass on a full time CFI job. It sucks, but the bills have to be paid. I started instructing in June of this year and I have brought home about 1200.00 since then.

That 13.00 an hour job looks really good right now, even though it's not what I would rather be doing.

Family first.
 
You-know-what

Foobar said:
[A]nd I'm not paying anybody any money for a job. If they start out treating you like crap, its not likely to improve later on.
Finally, someone else gets it about you-know-what.

Good luck with your efforts.
 
What's a CFI make?

What are you full time CFIers out there making a year?

I understand that a lot goes into that figure - student load, what you/the school charge, etc. Give me a worst/best case idea.

I too am in the process of spending the money I make from my 40k+ a year job to get my CFI rating - and then leaving that job/$ to CFI full time.

I just want to know exactly how much of my stuff I'll have to sell. Anybody know what you can get for a previously owned wife. Low mileage! :D
 
Of course it depends but in the Florida / Georgia / Alabama / Mississippi area you can count on abour $12,000.00 a year.

Yep, thats right, about $1000.00 a month. Its fun but you can't make a living at it.

If you are in a large urban area and can make it on your own as a freelance CFI then you might make out ok, but at Joe Blow's FBO you'll make about $18.00 / hour for flight and ground instruction. You'll fly about 60 hours a month.

Still want to join in?
 
I made about $17,000 for a year of instruction, which included less than a thousand for teaching an instrument ground school at the local college.

If you have an established life as an adult, your own aircraft, and enough students to keep you busy every day, you can charge $40 an hour for instruction plus the rental for the plane and make more than I did, but from a business standpoint this means that you have made a very large investment in your CFI job (airplane, marketing, insurance) than you would as an FBO employee.

I know a guy that fits into the "professional, stand alone, own aircraft" category. He does very well, and charges a premium price for his services. You and I probably would be a few years away from that experience, at best.
 
When you work a desk job, you get paid from the time you clock in until you leave. When you CFI, you get paid when the prop turns. That's a LOT of downtime when you are sitting there making no money. So don't think of a CFI making $12 or $15 an hour, but more like 1/3 or 1/4 of that.

I work 6 days a week and take home about $600-$900 a month.
 
CFI pay - circa 1990

In 1988, I (gladly) took about a $6K pay cut to leave broadcasting to instruct at ERAU. It took me a while to figure out scheduling and how to scare up airplanes for my students. At that point I was earning about $17K per year. The next fall, I got a bunch of multi and CFI students, which kept me busy. So, after being out of broadcasting for less than a year I was earning more than I did in 19 years of radio (which doesn't say much for that business). Also, there was a bonus system, in which you received extra pay if you had more than one-thousand hours of contact time that year. I don't remember the details of the scheme, except that it was very fair and generous. I was upgraded to Stage Check Pilot, which brought with it a salary of $25K. That salary was competitive with commuter captain pay of the day, and more than I ever made in broadcasting. I was later downgraded, went back to hourly, and suffered a $3K best-case pay cut. I say best-case because it could have been worse if I had little work.

I went to FlightSafety in 1991 and was making $12.50 per contact hour. It finally worked out to about $22K a year, which was less than what I was promised. There was health and a 401-K, but no employer contributions to the 401-K. At Mesa I was paid $15.00 per hour. I was making good money when I first began, but I was working far more than I should have. At the end of the term, I had no work and the well dried up. I could not take a break or leave town, which was unacceptable to me. I also was paid by San Juan College to teach ground school.

In my last job, at Arnautical, I was paid $18K. I was briefly boosted to $23K. No benies, health, or anything from that toilet.

Finally, there were even better-paying jobs at the foreign airline flight schools. At one time, new instructors at the Lufthansa school, ATCA in Goodyear, Arizona, started at $31K, with top of scale at $50K. When I interviewed, the place started new instructors at less than $31K. I turned down an offer because I refused to go to work for "B" scale wages. I had a friend who had started only a few weeks before on the "A" scale.

IASCO in Napa, California, started instructors at about $34K. Top of scale was something like $60K!! Can you believe $60K for instructing, in state-of-the-art facilities on terrific equipment? Highly formidable company and environment, though, and high cost of living in Northern California.

ERAU was the best aviation job I had, in overall terms of pay, benefits, and environment. Each job I had after Riddle was worse, for various reasons.

Once more, all these numbers are in late '80s-early '90s dollars.
 
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