FUD at Flight Options

[GerryG]

Just when I think they can't go any lower:

To each Flight Options pilot:

Most of you are aware of the Pilot Records Improvement Act of 1996 (“PRIA”). We regularly receive questions about what information we are required by PRIA to provide to potential employers when a current or former Flight Options pilot is being considered for employment by another air carrier. These questions are especially appropriate now because the Department of Transportation through the FAA revised its guidance in November 2007 (see http://www.faa.gov/pilots/lic_cert/pria/).

PRIA was enacted to help ensure that air carriers and air operators under 14 CFR part 121 and 135, or a hiring air operator under 14 CFR part 125, adequately investigate a pilot’s background before allowing that pilot to conduct commercial air carrier flights. Under PRIA, a hiring employer cannot place a pilot into service until it obtains detailed records of the last five years of the pilot’s background and other safety-related records from a pilot applicant’s former employer(s). In response to these mandated inquiries from potential employers, we have been required to provide certain records regarding the pilot’s employment at Flight Options such as training and checking records, drug and alcohol test records, and disciplinary records that related to a pilot’s performance as a pilot.

THE DOT-FAA ADVISORY CIRCULAR (AC) 120-68D

The November 2007 AC provides a significantly expanded interpretation of a carrier’s duty to provide records according to PRIA requests from a prospective employer. In addition to the records we have provided in the past, we are now compelled to comply with section 2-3.d., that is, Records Concerning Disciplinary Actions: “...Your previous employer <Flight Options> must report all disciplinary actions, including those that do not involve your performance as a pilot, if they played any role in your termination or release from employment.” (The italicized words in the previous sentence are italicized in the Advisory Circular.)

WHAT DOES THIS DOT-FAA CLARIFICATION MEAN TO ME?

This change will not affect the vast majority of our flight crewmembers. For the small number of pilots whose employment was terminated, or who resigned in lieu of termination or to avoid involuntary termination, the new Advisory Circular requirements may result in the provision of additional information regarding the pilot’s disciplinary record that may not have been previously given. This will provide a prospective employer with a fuller picture of the pilot applicant’s employment history.

Best regards,

Bob

 

[CALRepublic]

Just when I think they can't go any lower:

To each Flight Options pilot:
WHAT DOES THIS DOT-FAA CLARIFICATION MEAN TO ME?

This will provide a prospective employer with a fuller picture of the pilot applicant’s employment history.

Best regards,

Bob

Jeez, what's with this company?? Is that legal, I don't think it is....

Reading between the lines "we're short on pilots, if you leave, you'll be screwing us. Expect to be screwed back on your way out. Eye for an eye"

Companies like this one don't deserve a two week notice....

 

[ProFracPilot]

Companies like this one don't deserve a two week notice....

At least one of our pilots (and I suspect more than one) trying to do the "right thing" by giving two weeks notice, got screwed for his effort. On the first day of his tour he provided the company the customary 2 weeks notice. The company not only terminated him immediately, but made it retroactive 7 days prior - his off days - and took those days as vacation so they didn't have to pay him.

When the time is right my last day at FlOps will be the day I go home from my last rotation.

 

[CALRepublic]

When the time is right my last day at FlOps will be the day I go home from my last rotation.

I don't blame you. Its clear this company has 0 loyalty to you guys, so why not.....

I've had several conversations with some of you guys at the PBI Crowne Plaza. I've heard some prety good stories, how they've managed to keep pilots is beyond me.

Good luck, you're going to need it with those people.

 

[Hobbes]

At least one guy I know of, flew a repo leg, had enough and just got himself a rental car and drove home. Can't see nothing wrong with that.

Any other good quitting stories or ideas?

I also heard a guy was forced into the Beechjunk and got the type, flew one leg and then quit...could be the same person from above...I am not sure.

Do you think if you just Fed Ex your blackberry and stuff in a box full of cow manure they would get the idea? I can't imagine you would have to bother typing up a letter to go with it...although they are kind of slow.

 

[buckeyes95]

I did not turn anything in when I quit. I asked for a Fed Ex number to ship the stuff back and never got one. Anyone need a used blackberry???

 

[SilverSurfer]

Incredible Incompetence

Just when I think they can't go any lower:

To each Flight Options pilot:

Most of you are aware of the Pilot Records Improvement Act of 1996 (“PRIA”). We regularly receive questions about what information we are required by PRIA to provide to potential employers when a current or former Flight Options pilot is being considered for employment by another air carrier. These questions are especially appropriate now because the Department of Transportation through the FAA revised its guidance in November 2007 (see http://www.faa.gov/pilots/lic_cert/pria/).

PRIA was enacted to help ensure that air carriers and air operators under 14 CFR part 121 and 135, or a hiring air operator under 14 CFR part 125, adequately investigate a pilot’s background before allowing that pilot to conduct commercial air carrier flights. Under PRIA, a hiring employer cannot place a pilot into service until it obtains detailed records of the last five years of the pilot’s background and other safety-related records from a pilot applicant’s former employer(s). In response to these mandated inquiries from potential employers, we have been required to provide certain records regarding the pilot’s employment at Flight Options such as training and checking records, drug and alcohol test records, and disciplinary records that related to a pilot’s performance as a pilot.

THE DOT-FAA ADVISORY CIRCULAR (AC) 120-68D

The November 2007 AC provides a significantly expanded interpretation of a carrier’s duty to provide records according to PRIA requests from a prospective employer. In addition to the records we have provided in the past, we are now compelled to comply with section 2-3.d., that is, Records Concerning Disciplinary Actions: “...Your previous employer <Flight Options> must report all disciplinary actions, including those that do not involve your performance as a pilot, if they played any role in your termination or release from employment.” (The italicized words in the previous sentence are italicized in the Advisory Circular.)

WHAT DOES THIS DOT-FAA CLARIFICATION MEAN TO ME?

This change will not affect the vast majority of our flight crewmembers. For the small number of pilots whose employment was terminated, or who resigned in lieu of termination or to avoid involuntary termination, the new Advisory Circular requirements may result in the provision of additional information regarding the pilot’s disciplinary record that may not have been previously given. This will provide a prospective employer with a fuller picture of the pilot applicant’s employment history.

Best regards,

Bob

For those of you that are not familiar with the management players at Floptions let me enlighten you about "Bob", "Bob/B19".

The Butt Monkey that sent out this threatening insult of a message to our pilots in none other the Bob Tyler, VP of Operations. Bob has had a history anti union work and of these types of messages at Floptions dating back to 2005 when he came to the company.

A little history on Babbling Bob that you might find interesting. Bob is a Eastern SCAB. He helped Lorenzo to destroy Eastern but ensured his pay out when the airline failed. He sold his fellow pilots down the river for his own gain. He was successful at defeating union organization at Jet Aviation while there as VPO. Once a SCAB always SCAB. He has spread FUD, distortions and out right untruths his entire time at Floptions. All the while using his slick, used car salesmen personality and skills to sell himself a one of us, a good old boy from the south, looking out for our best interest. What a crock of bullsh!t.

This latest Babbling Bob message has no other mission then an attempt to instill fear in the weak sisters among us. We are finally getting managements attention and the cost of not being serious about concluding contract negotiations is starting to have a high price. As that price goes up so will managements desire to quicken the pace of negotiations.

Don't allow this POS SCAB to intimidate you or dissuade you from our goals. We are winning this fight, management knows it and this email is just another underhanded ploy from our Corrupt Third World Management.

 

[Ticker]

Thanks Bob...you SCAB!!

Aviation is a very small world indeed my friend. See ya around.

 

[realityman]

Interesting tactic from FLOPS management. A management with a long and colorful history of losing lawsuits to former pilots.

Goodluck guys! This really is low.

 

[FR8DOG777]

Stmfd

S.T.M.F.D. before somebody gets hurt. Go .... up a rope Tyler you made your bed now lie in it!

 

[nerdpilot]

Now there is no reason to resign since the reason you resign has to be sent to any future employer. They have to fire you now and Im not sure that will benefit them at all.

 

[CALRepublic]

When you get your new contract (hopefully soon), and things improve, would you still stay at FLOPS or get the hell out????

A good friend works at FLOPS (8 yrs.), I'm trying to get'em to come over to NetJets, but he says he doesn't want to start all over again; "don't want to be at the bottom on the NJ seniority list".

 

[Frac Cap]

You can tell him it is not good to be at the bottom, but it is better to be at the bottom just before 594 come in behind him.

 

[bchjetdrvr]

Guys,

It's illegal. His intepretation is going to get his dick in a ringer. My .02 cents and advice is document...document..document. Then when you're done with that, document some more. What I mean is always document who you called, what was said, who said what to whom, date, time, phone #, forward emails to your home, etc... Build your ammo should you ever need it.

If/when you consider leaving any job, the first call you should make is to HR. Flat out ask them, what is their current policy and procedures in place when dealing with a prospective employer that calls to do employment verification on you.

This is a small world this aviation business. Keep your friends close. Document what's going on with you and with them. WHY? Cause if they aren't on a straight and narrow path with procedures involving each employee, their in a sh$t load of trouble.

Don't let these fear tactics scare you. Sit back, relax, drink a beer (off duty):beer: and take the time to do your homework. First off start by reading the article below.

-------------------------

Can My Old Employer Tell Potential Employers That They Fired Me?


Recently I have been asked a lot of questions about what employers can and can’t disclose about a former employee’s performance and reasons for leaving the company. So, I decided to find out what the law says as well as what in-house counsel would generally advise an HR department about disclosures. I consulted with my attorney friend Carole Jurkash, a fellow University of Chicago graduate who went on to get her law degree from Yale Law School to find out what the law says about this topic. Carole really knows what she is talking about because she has 17 years of experience advising various corporations on general business matters as an in-house attorney.

Carole made it clear that in most states employees are hired “at will” which means they can be fired at any time for almost any reason. The exceptions to “almost any reason” are that an employer can’t fire you for any the following: your gender, your race, your religion, your sexual orientation, your age, any disabilities you might have, or your marital status. If you are fired for any of those reasons you might have grounds to sue your former employer.

Employers are not prohibited by law from telling a potential employer who calls for a reference about a former employee the reasons that the employee left as long as the information they share is truthful. However, a lot of employers opt not to share the reasons that employees have left the company or to give any kind of references for any former or current employees.

While an employer may be able to fire you for just about any reason, it is in the employer’s interest to be consistent with all employees in order to avoid employment discrimination claims. In other words, as a best practice to avoid liability in employment cases, many lawyers advise employers to adopt a set of policies that are applied to all employees equally. Consistency is a very important element in understanding why employers may or may not choose to discuss the reasons a former employee left the company as you will see in a minute.

One thing that employers want to avoid is a disparagement lawsuit. “Disparagement” means saying something about a former employee that isn't true, that is slanderous, or is intended to hurt the former employee. In order to avoid the possibility of a disparagement lawsuit, many employers opt not to give any references at all. That’s right – no references for anyone. Instead, many employers choose to institute a policy of only confirming dates of employment and salary information.

But why not give good references to employees who leave on good terms? Why give no references at all?

Employers are cautious about disclosing information about the performance of former employees because of a combination two things: the need for consistent treatment of all employees to avoid employment discrimination claims and a desire to avoid risking disparagement lawsuits.

For example, if an employer discloses information related to a former employee’s poor performance the former employee in question could challenge that claim in court and claim that the employer is slandering them. Or that there was some sort of discrimination (whether there was or not). Even if an employer is perfectly justified in firing a poor performer it is likely that the employer’s attorney will advise them to keep quiet about the reasons for the firing. Why? Because, as you can see there is really no upside to the employer to disclose that information. Attorneys try to minimize risk for their clients. Since disclosing reasons for termination could be considered a risk it is likely that most employers will simply not do so.

On the other hand if an employer gives glowing references for its former employees who were star performers while staying mum about the poor performers, they run the risk that a poor performer could sue them for being inconsistent in their policies. Seem crazy? The “poor” performer’s argument goes like this: the “poor” performer claims that the real reason that the employer is refusing to give a reference is based on an unlawful discriminatory reason [race, religion, etc.], and that the employer always gives good references, for example, to ex-employees who are Catholic males under forty with Irish surnames regardless of the quality of their performance, and never gives references to Buddhist females over forty. Well the key to successfully avoiding or defending this type of claim is for employers to treat all employees equally. So, if they say great things when someone calls to check references for “good” performers and say nothing about the “bad” performers, they are not treating everyone equally. So many employers won’t give any kind of reference at all. If you happen to have been fired for poor performance this situation is certainly better for you than some alternatives.

So to wrap this up…Can a former employer disclose information about your job performance or the reasons you left the company to someone who calls to check your references? The short answer is: yes they can as long as they are truthful in what they disclose. The longer answer is that most employers choose to minimize the risk of certain types of lawsuits and therefore don’t disclose any performance related information about former employees or the reasons that employees have left the company.

If you are leaving a company for any reason ask your HR representative or the company’s legal counsel what the policy is about references for former employees. Finding out the company policy is the only way to know what you can expect in terms of a reference from a former employer.

Special thanks to Carole Jurkash for offering her thoughts on this important topic.


http://ultimate-resumes.blogspot.com/2007/05/can-my-old-employer-tell-potential.html

 

[bchjetdrvr]

A caveat to my statement above - "It's illegal" - It sort of is and sort of isn't.

ALL pilots take notice. Do your homework. BE PROACTIVE.

The following flow chart from the feds shows how Flops and other HR flight departments have to deal with PRIA and the requests from new employers.

You have to know this....YOU ARE IN THE LOOP. Make sure you are. What certain flight department HR people (eh em FLOPS), might not want you to know, is that you have to be in the loop and have the oppurtunity to dispute and have corrections made to anything in yor file. If you're not in the loop and kept out of the loop....er ILLEGAL.

Another "Go straight to Jail" action that gets HR in trouble is this. Disparity. A big no-no. IE 2 pilots are fired or leave. Both of their new employers come knocking and are doing the whole employment verification thing. If the previous company divulges more or less information inconsisent with regards to both those piltos...that's a big NO NO.

The hard part is knowing it. That 's why you have to be proactive. Stay in touch with your frends leaving. Again. Specificly ask the HR department what the policy and procedures are when dealing with employement verification.

Know the process!

http://www.faa.gov/pilots/lic_cert/pria/overview/media/flowchart.rtf

"After the records have been received, the pilot/applicant may review them and submit a statement to correct any inaccuracies."

​

 

[B19 Flyer]

A caveat to my statement above - "It's illegal" - It sort of is and sort of isn't.

ALL pilots take notice. Do your homework. BE PROACTIVE.

The following flow chart from the feds shows how Flops and other HR flight departments have to deal with PRIA and the requests from new employers.

You have to know this....YOU ARE IN THE LOOP. Make sure you are. What certain flight department HR people (eh em FLOPS), might not want you to know, is that you have to be in the loop and have the oppurtunity to dispute and have corrections made to anything in yor file. If you're not in the loop and kept out of the loop....er ILLEGAL.

Another "Go straight to Jail" action that gets HR in trouble is this. Disparity. A big no-no. IE 2 pilots are fired or leave. Both of their new employers come knocking and are doing the whole employment verification thing. If the previous company divulges more or less information inconsisent with regards to both those piltos...that's a big NO NO.

The hard part is knowing it. That 's why you have to be proactive. Stay in touch with your frends leaving. Again. Specificly ask the HR department what the policy and procedures are when dealing with employement verification.

Know the process!

http://www.faa.gov/pilots/lic_cert/pria/overview/media/flowchart.rtf

"After the records have been received, the pilot/applicant may review them and submit a statement to correct any inaccuracies."​

Typical union crap... incomplete information twisted to make the union good and management bad.

If you were going to give a link, why the hell didn't you give the whole link? You didn't do it, because it would have shown every reader on this board that "Bob" was actually giving good advice and was doing something that the union didn't take the time to do.


Here is the whole and complete link:


http://www.faa.gov/pilots/lic_cert/pria/forms_docs/


And furthermore, here is the actual DOT regulation:

http://64.233.169.104/search?q=cach...+(49+U.S.C.)+§+44703&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=4&gl=us


Now, what you want to do is open advisory circular 120-68D and read it all, but reading Chapter 2 is where the new language begins.

Not only is it legal, it is backed up by DOT regulations. Don't let the union tell you anything but the truth. Read this for yourself.

As a pilot, you want these regulations in place. It will weed out weak pilots LONG before ANY union advisory committee can get involved in the hiring process.

Oh, and by the way.. the union DOES NOT HAVE ACCESS TO THIS INFORMATION!

These guys are now using DOT regulations and FAA interpretations to try and tell you how management will "interpret" PRIA.

Nothing could be further from the truth.

THE FAA IS THE ONE MAKING THE INTERPRETATION AND YOUR COMPANY IS ADVISING YOU OF IT.

If your union was on the ball, they would have done it first, but clearly, they aren't there to do help or inform, they are just there for the $$$.

 

[bchjetdrvr]

Just smile and wave boys...just smile and wave. Nothing to see here. Keep it moving. B19 is off his meds....keep it moving.

 

[Fozzy]

Tool.

 

[WabiSabi]

B19, it's funny how the MAJORITY of your post is anti-IBT1108 ala FLOPS.

Have nice day BOB TYLER.......you f-ing idiot!

 

[dime line]

It will weed out weak pilots, LONG before ANY union advisory committee can get involved in the hiring process.

Hmmmmmm.so kinda like management (you), weeded out the Beechjet engine sucking guy. Didn't he lie to you guys about the incident and try to cover it up?(You were even thinking of making this tool a Checkairman)

hmmmm lets see, kinda like you weeded out the 2 girls that ran a new legacy into another of FLOPS legacy, i think one of those needed a new wing. (whats a wing cost these days..6 million).Wow 6 million thats a lot of green.

Hmmmmm another, how about our pilots that have failed more than 6 checkrides and are now copilots for life.

Hmmmmm 1 more, (i'm liking this) And how about the one pilot in this company that had to have his line changed 3 times due to copilots refusing to fly with him.

So are these "Weak" pilots B19? What do you think?


anybody else have good stories.

Good one B19 yea management is really doing there job on these cases, weeding out the week yea sure!

Vote B19 for President, because one dosent need a clue to be President.