FSSs Outsourced as well? Thanks GW

[HawkerF/O]

Well, I guess outsourcing good American technical jobs was not enough for the current Administration. I remember being a student pilot learning to fly and how the guys at the FSSs really looked out for the Student pilot and showed so much patience explaining why I should stay home in order to live to fly another day or sharing in my excitement when they told me the WX was going to cooperate and I was going to get to go flying. But never mind all that, you geniuses keep on and send 'ol GW a thank you note for giving it to these guys on the chin. And don't write back and try to sell us on how he had nothing to do with this, as a decision like this is made at the highest levels. Furthermore, that song and dance about the current briefers having the 1st right of refusal is just that, something to refuse. We all know how mergers/outsourcing works; pay cuts, the concessions that you have to make just by losing your status as a Federal Employee, and since they are consolidating, most, yes most FSS employees will have to pack up and move their families in the next 2 years. I like Bush, I really do. I think he is a straight shooter for the most part, and most of the time does what he believes is the right thing to do, and there is a lot to be said about someone like that. With that said, his economic policies and utter disregard and disrespect towards labor (Yes, that includes all you Blue Collar pilots) and the working man truly disgusts me. I wonder how many Briefers now regret their decision to vote for GW? Some people have to learn the hard way, as I am sure most of you GW apologist will in the next few years. One last thing, writing to tell me that a pilot is not a blue collar job is just a waste of your time. Ford Motor’s Assembly Line workers (that’s a Blue collar job too!) easily pull down 100K annually after 2 or 3 years. So next time you are stomping around the aircraft at 5am doing your pre-flight in the blowing wind/rain/snow because Mr. Gotbucks called and said get it out of bed because he forgot to tell you he wanted to be in Vegas by 9am so he could have breakfast with his lady friend, remember just how White Collar that job of yours is. So to the guys/gals over at the FSSs, so long old friend.


http://www.faa.gov/apa/pr/pr.cfm?id=1922

Lockheed Martin Selected As FSS Provider
[font=Times New Roman, Times, serif]The FAA announced Tuesday that Lockheed Martin will provide services now offered by the agency’s 58 automated flight service stations in the continental U.S. The five-year, $1.9 billion contract–which has five option years–could save the FAA $2.2 billion if the options are taken. The agency decided to look at outsourcing FSS functions to reduce its current $500 million annual cost by at least 22 percent. The other bidders for the contract included a partnership between the FAA’s current weather briefers and Harris; Computer Sciences, the provider of DUATS; Northrop Grumman; and Raytheon. While the FAA’s schedule calls for a six-to nine-month phase-in period starting in October and then a 36-month transition period, there also is an appeal period for the losing bidders to contest the FAA’s decision. Current FAA briefers will have a right of first refusal for jobs with the new contractor, but the agency plans to incrementally consolidate the 58 current FSSs down to 20 between April next year and March 2007. The FSS award to Lockheed Martin follows last week’s selection of the company to lead a team to supply what started life as the AgustaWestland EH-101 as the new Presidential helicopter.
[/font]

 

[groundpointsix]

Outsourcing? In a sense I suppose. The jobs will presumably still be staffed by americans. Will some specialists lose their jobs? Maybe. But if they have rights of first refusal, it's a choice they made. AOPA (whose views I generally support on matters GA, even if they do send me 40 renewel notices every year) seems to think that this will be better for pilots. The goal is to have every call answered (by a person) within 5 seconds or something. That is certainly an improvement over the times I call to get a briefing at 7am when there's only one guy doing everything and there's 10 other pilots trying to do the same thing I'm doing. Will it work? Maybe, but I'm optimistic.

 

[SND]

The jobs aren't being outsourced, they are being eliminated. A savings of over 2 billion in 10 years doesn't seem like a savings if they are eliminating more than half of the stations. How will services be made better if there are less stations which means less personel. Once again the american public is sold a bill of goods with fancy numbers while more jobs are lost. Log on to the ATO's website, FSS stations are the beginning, towers are next then maybe even centers. User fee's are around the corner for GA.

 

[chawbein]

You can do all the FSS operations for the whole country from a bunker 300 feet underneath BumbleScrew, GA. You can automate alot of what the FSS does, as well as use some communications technology i.e. (high speed WAN, or even phone lines) to make all the data that is available to a local FSS available to some central point. Why should you pay a couple of guys in North Dakota to sit on their asses and handle 10 calls a day when you can have two guys handle North Dakota, South Dakota, Montana, etc... and be busy all day. Do you get the idea?

 

[OrphicSeth]

You can do all the FSS operations for the whole country from a bunker 300 feet underneath BumbleScrew, GA. You can automate alot of what the FSS does, as well as use some communications technology i.e. (high speed WAN, or even phone lines) to make all the data that is available to a local FSS available to some central point. Why should you pay a couple of guys in North Dakota to sit on their asses and handle 10 calls a day when you can have two guys handle North Dakota, South Dakota, Montana, etc... and be busy all day. Do you get the idea?

I see your points, but disagree.

There is a lot to be said about local knowledge from the briefers, especially in areas where weather can change rapidly or be very different in short distances. Briefers who have been working an area for years can really offer great pointers and advice about the weather and what to expect.

Automation is a great idea, but sometimes impractical, especially at remote strips and very rural FBO's. Heck, I live in a densely populated area that's not too bad off and several of my co-workers cannot get any sort of high-speed internet service. To boot, phone-line data links would be agonizingly slow. I know of several FBO's that might be able to afford one phone line for WX Brief access, but that's it. Imagine the delays on a Saturday morning when the locals line up for a briefing. At my current job, any sort of data link/internet connection is out of the question 100%, there is no room and most importantly, no money to do it... and we are relatively successful as far as our business goes.

Consolidation in the upper-Mid West as you described might work, but in the Northeast, or other very busy regions, consolidation would only slow the system down if they merged and cut jobs from the FSS stations.

The idea of having radio calls answered within 5 sec. with services provided within 15 seconds is ludicrous. Jobs will be cut, and this completely unecessary time limit will only shorten your briefing. On snotty days, I appreciate being able to get a nice accurate WX picture. Sometimes when they're busy I have a tough enough time asking for WX details to the west of my location to get an idea of what is coming... I can only imagine how much more difficult it will be when they have to cut me off to get to someone else under the time limit with less people working.

I have always had great experiences with FSS's. I wish them all the best of luck, and hope that we can keep this system running to provide and gather information that is critical to flight safety... rather than running the system to satisfy numbers in a proposal.

 

[FlyFlyFly]

Go Whine Somewhere Else

Discuss the merits of FSS, fine, make it a political discussion, take it somewhere else. Could the moderators make a call on this?

 

[2000flyer]

Hey, I used to live near BumbleScrew, GA!

I remember when there was an FSS office at nearly every "larger" airport. While it was great being able to walk into an FSS station and talk to the briefer, this was before the internet and weather service providers (WSI, Meteorlogic, etc). I remember all the whining when they went to regional FSS stations.

We'll still get our weather. We'll get it from qualified personnel. Many of those will probably be former FAA FSS personnel.

2000Flyer

 

[groundpointsix]

The idea of having radio calls answered within 5 sec. with services provided within 15 seconds is ludicrous.

I think you're reading that wrong. I don't think anyone expects your service to have been provided in its entirety within 15 seconds. I think what it means is that the briefer will have the information you asked for and begin providing it within 15 seconds. So they answer your initial call within 5, and instead of telling you to standby for a couple minutes while they deal with someone else, they're giving you your briefing or filing your flight plan within the next 10 seconds. But hey, I've been wrong before.

 

[GVFlyer]

Times change...things change. At one time you had to call the FSS to open and close your IFR flight plans. I spent 25 minutes on hold this week with the Leesburg FSS trying to file a flight plan to get out of Dulles - I'm ready for a change.

GV

 

[400A]

Hawker F/O

I bet Hawker F/O's Capt. goes home with a splitting headache every single day!!!

Take a MIDOL Dude!

In case you have forgotten, the president does not just wave a majic wand and make things happen. The Congress and Senate approve it as well.

I think you should run for president, you seem to have all the answers.

 

[HawkerF/O]

"In case you have forgotten, the president does not just wave a majic wand and make things happen. The Congress and Senate approve it as well."

400A,

Did you mean "majic" or "magic"? Was phonics class too much for you in the 2nd grade?

Don't be bitter because you are stuck in a Beechjet, oh, I'm sorry, I mean Hawker 400XP. That's what it is called now isn't it, a 400XP? Isn't the Senate a part of Congress or do you just know know any better?

Congress: The national legislative body of the United States, consisting of the Senate and the House of Representatives

So, The House of Represenatives and the Senate are the ones that approved FSSs becoming privatized and not the appointees in the FAA? Just say that out lond once and listen to just how ignorant it sounds. Does someone actually pay you to work for them? Idiot

I see you are quite the smart one. Before you have the nerve to speak to me again, make sure you have your facts straight, Wiseone.

 

[400A]

MY Bad

O.K I will give you that on the civics and spelling lesson. I was so taken back by your ability to blame everything in the world on GW that you appeared to not know how the government works. In my haste to help you out of our misery, I phrased it wrong. Now that I know you are an expert and can quote the constitution, I am even more confused. I am sure you have never made a typo!

I am sure that makes up for the fact that you are stuck in the right seat of a Hawker, and are not allowed to fly with people on board.

I infact do not judge my worth by the size of my aircraft. It serves our mission perfectly, and most importantly, I like flying it. It also does not take me far from home, nor on many overnighters, so I am home more often to do my real job... Be a father to my children, not cart around the country in the biggest aircraft I can find just to try to make up for my lack of self worth by whinning and making everyone else miserable.

By the way, ours is a 2000 model 400A, marketing names mean nothing to me. Look on the data plate on the next 400XP you see and it is still the same. The type rating is still BE-40,,,, not HS-anything..... but I am sure you knew that too.

I always crack up at how everyone has to take shots at what someone flys when they disagree. Take another Midol, the first one is not working yet.

 

[HawkerF/O]

I accept your apology

What I got out of what you wrote.

O.K I will give you that on the civics and spelling lesson. I was so taken back by your ability to blame everything in the world on GW that you appeared to not know how the government works. In my haste to help you out of our misery, I phrased it wrong. Now that I know you are an expert and can quote the constitution, I am even more confused. I am sure you have never made a typo!

I have made typos, but you did not. That was more than a typo. If you didn't know you didn't know, and it's OK to say that you didn't know.

I am sure that makes up for the fact that you are stuck in the right seat of a Hawker, and are not allowed to fly with people on board.

Hardly stuck. The above statement tells me a lot about you and your character. I'm sure your employees are miserable, and don't write back telling me how happy they are, as you and I both know that is just not true. You are ego-driven and insecure. I see you are the CP where ever it is that you work. What you wrote tells me that you do not allow your F/Os fly live legs. That is too bad. Your ego allows you to rationalize that you are the only one worthy of flying with pax on board, and your insecurity shows that you are scared your boss will see that others are more than capable of flying just as well as you are, and God forbid you let them touch the controls. Luckily for me, I work for some great people; No stick hogs, no egos, no insecurity, and no poor attitudes. I see that you bring all of those elements to the table, and that is a short-coming on your behalf. At my place of employment, F/Os swap every other leg. It's just that simple. Going into a 5K foot strip at 3am down to mins with a contaminated runway, the captain might grab that leg, as he certainly has every right to do so; at the end of the day it's his ticket on the line, so no hard feelings.

I infact do not judge my worth by the size of my aircraft. It serves our mission perfectly, and most importantly, I like flying it. It also does not take me far from home, nor on many overnighters, so I am home more often to do my real job... Be a father to my children, not cart around the country in the biggest aircraft I can find just to try to make up for my lack of self worth by whinning and making everyone else miserable.

That tells me you are a loser and nobody will hire you because of your personality, lack of skill, and judgement. Come on, tell us all what happened? What is it in your background that keeps you from moving on in your career? I won't judge you, I promise. Oh wait, don't tell me, you also never had any desire to fly for the airlines, right?

By the way, ours is a 2000 model 400A, marketing names mean nothing to me. Look on the data plate on the next 400XP you see and it is still the same. The type rating is still BE-40,,,, not HS-anything..... but I am sure you knew that too.

I can tell; Right along with self worth, dignity, and honor.

I always crack up at how everyone has to take shots at what someone flys when they disagree. Take another Midol, the first one is not working yet.

You fired the 1st Salvo here, not me, or did you forget that as well. No wait, it was a typo, right Beechjet Driver? Go back and look at your 1st post to me on this subject. Capt's going home with headaches, Midol, running for President because I have all the answers. Now, tell me again who took the 1st crack at who. You and I are having friendly banter back and forth, so don't go home and kick the dog. We are just going back and forth with one another, so calm down and enjoy your Midol.

 

[Flying Illini]

Ok HawkerF/O, we get that you don't like GW. That's fine. But do you have to make every little thing that happens a political issue that is soley his fault?
I feel for the FSS guys too, but it's an old system that needs to be streamlined. If we don't notice a drop in service after all is said and done, then this was a good move to save some $$.

 

[HawkerF/O]

Ok HawkerF/O, we get that you don't like GW. That's fine. But do you have to make every little thing that happens a political issue that is soley his fault?
I feel for the FSS guys too, but it's an old system that needs to be streamlined. If we don't notice a drop in service after all is said and done, then this was a good move to save some $$.

Go tell that to the guys over in the Majors forum and watch them eat your lucnh. Let them know when the service they provide as pilots becomes inefficient and some beauracrat over that Airline X thinks things need to be streamlined to save a few bucks, that it's a good move to bring in help from the outside by outsourcnig thier jobs. Go on over there and share those thoughts. Did you even read my post? I do like GW, but his policies are do nothing for the middle class and the little guy, and that is disgusting.

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story2&u=/ap/20050205/ap_on_go_pr_wh/bush_budget

 

[cvoav8r]

It is too bad you have such a poor attitude. The reason no one has redressed your "blue collar" speech is that you clearly are blue collar. Blue collar is an attitude in your case. Are you so perspectively challanged to not know that the difference. You are probably one of those auto mechanic/ not so educated types that sliped through the cracks and joined our ranks. Be happy for what you have. And take some days off for an attitude adjustment.

The Dude

 

[HawkerF/O]

It is too bad you have such a poor attitude. The reason no one has redressed your "blue collar" speech is that you clearly are blue collar. Blue collar is an attitude in your case. Are you so perspectively challanged to not know that the difference. You are probably one of those auto mechanic/ not so educated types that sliped through the cracks and joined our ranks. Be happy for what you have. And take some days off for an attitude adjustment.

The Dude

I found it funny you called me 'not so educated'.

1) You mispelled challenged

2) "Are you so perspectively challanged to not know that the difference." That whole sentence is not coherent, not to mention the spelling mistake and because you were trying to ask me a question, the sentence should have the proper puncutation on the end of it, and that would be a question mark.

3) There are 2 p's in sliPPed, not one.

I'll take those days off just as soon as you learn how to spell and use grammar correctly.

 

[400A]

pay attention

let me answer a few of your ego driven questions.

First of all, my shortest time employee has been with me 5 years. they must not be to miserable. You on the other hand have never had a job for 5 years. We also hang out at each others homes together.

Second, not only do all of my pilots fly every other leg, they do it in the left seat, to and include when the President of the company is onboard. I dont hire losers like you who not only cant fly, and sit and cry all the time. You said it yourself. The Captain takes the aircraft away from you if it is not CAVU.

As far as the majors, would have liked to when I knew which ones were going to survive, and that I thought I might make more money than I do. With all the paycuts and financial problems, I am not interested right now.

Abilities, Dude, you have never flown with me, but Instructor, checkairman, and dedicated PIC for a Senator says otherwise. I dont normaly mention this, but you said I cant fly.

Advancement,,,, some of us dont need to job hop to make more money. Some of us work for companies who compenaste their employees for performance and loyalties. You on the other hand are one of those guys who change jobs all the time leaving the current employer standing there with a $20,000 training bill and an empty seat on the flight deck. But of course you have to do this because nobody wants to fly with your sissy crying self.

Grow up,,, you voted for a loser,,,, just like you!!!!!

 

[Flying Illini]

*sigh*

HawkerF/O, this discussion doesn't have anything to do with the "Majors" board. The FSS system is a great service but that service but it is antiquated and could use some streamlining. Waiting on hold for 20 minutes just doesn't cut it. Having radio calls answered would be nice, there are times when calls go unanswered. If Lockheed is able to fix up this system, more power to them. Let them do it. The current employees will have "right of first refusal" which is a good thing. Yes, there will be some lost jobs but that is what happens sometimes. I guess lockheed could keep everybody employed but then their projected savings would probably become a deficit not a savings and if that happens, then we would start to see user fees.
Personally, I'm excited about the prospects of a more reliable FSS system. With the preponderance of computer based wx and the ability to file online, the FSS staffers don't seem to be utilized as much as before, but it is still nice to be able to talk to someone when you need to...and right now, you can't always do that (reliably).

p.s. I'm sure I had some misspellings, sorry in advance.

 

[bigD]

For the record, Texas BBQ beats the hell out of N.C. BBQ.