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Frost on wings?

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Joined
Sep 5, 2004
Posts
113
According to my CFI, we can safely fly if we polish and frost or ice on the wings to make it smooth.

According to the FAA and the ASF, it needs to be removed completely.

Whats the deal?
 
uh... you want to remove any ice, frost, etc. from the wings before you fly. Just because you polish a rough, frosty surface that doesn't make it safe... ice or frost will change the camber of the wing, add weight, etc. Ice is one of pilot's most dreaded elements.. don't take any chances... just my $.02.
 
I agree with you and not your CFI, the reason as follows:

I think where your CFI got the "polish the frost" theory was from reading a Jeppeson manual. While not completely inaccurate with their information, they do have mistakes. Therefore when discussing topics with lets say an FAA examiner, only FAA books should be referenced. Not ASA not Jepp, only FAA.

Bearing this in mind, Aviation Weather, AC 00-6A (1975 he he) states:

pp102 - 103 - "Always remove ice or frost from airfoils before attempting takeoff." There is no mentioning of polishing anything in any FAA publication I can find. I would like to hear if someone can find an FAA publication with that information. Because I remember having heard the same thing somewhere once.
 
Your CFI might be thinking of statements such as "frost creates a rough surface on the wing which can result in early separation of airflow from the wing surface.." thereby concluding that polishing it smooth is an acceptable remedy. Bottom line, don't fly with any frost, ice, or other $hit on your wings.
 
moxiepilot said:
I would like to hear if someone can find an FAA publication with that information. Because I remember having heard the same thing somewhere once.

Sure thing.

14 CFR 135.227
(a) No pilot may take off an aircraft that has frost, ice, or snow adhering to any rotor blade, propeller, windshield, wing, stabilizing or control surface, to a powerplant installation, or to an airspeed, altimeter, rate of climb, or flight attitude instrument system, except under the following conditions:

(1) Takeoffs may be made with frost adhering to the wings, or stabilizing or control surfaces, if the frost has been polished to make it smooth.

BUT.

I agree with you. Remove it. I've seen the data and I've gotten ice on a 172 (unintentionally). It's not fun flying full power at 90kts with 0 flaps on final. Just remove it.

-mini
 
I used to fly 207's and 402's in western Alaska. You do indeed polish it smooth with a big ol' push broom (be careful around the vortex generators on the 402). Then add about 5 knots to your rotation speed and be on your way. The rest will sublimate off before you land.
 
When I flew Part 135 we could polish the frost. Under SkyWest's Part 121 rules we have to be completely clear of ice or anything, except frost under the wing created from cold fuel in the tanks.
 
thanks mini - i knew i read it somewhere but couldn't think of the resource. my reg reading has been more focused on endorsements lately :) the cfi initial sure blows sometimes.
 
In the winter time, the early morning flights always had frost coating the top of the 172's wings and elevator. This was mostly due to the planes sitting in the shaded area of the ramp. We brushed off as much as possible with a broom while preheating the engine and just used a little more speed on rotation/climbout. The remainder of it sublimated pretty quickly after that.
 
moxiepilot said:
thanks mini - i knew i read it somewhere but couldn't think of the resource. my reg reading has been more focused on endorsements lately :) the cfi initial sure blows sometimes.

Not a problem. Good luck with the CFI. I'm torn between the initial CFI (which was my -II) and the Instrument as to which was more rewarding checkride. Both require a ton of work.

Keep readin' up on the endorsements. If you know 'em cold and aerodynamics, your oral should be a snap. I've been studying for the ATP/DX written lately so 135 regs are on my mind a lot.

Let me know how the CFI goes!

-mini
 

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