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Frontier officials: Mesa may stop region

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big dog1

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 28, 2002
Posts
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http://www.rockymountainnews.com/dr...2083402,00.html

Frontier officials: Mesa may stop regional flights
By David Kesmodel, Rocky Mountain News
July 2, 2003

Mesa Airlines probably will stop flying regional jets for Denver-based Frontier Airlines in January, Frontier officials said today.

An expanded partnership between Frontier rival United Airlines and Mesa - announced Tuesday - puts restrictions on Mesa's ability to have partnerships with other carriers in United's hub cities, Mesa Chief Executive Jonathan Ornstein said in an interview. He declined to provide details.

Denver-based Frontier has been in talks with Mesa about renewing their 17-month-old Frontier JetExpress partnership - and ratcheting it up - before the current contract expires Aug. 31. They will extend the current arrangement until Jan. 1, 2004, Sean Menke, Frontier's vice president of marketing and planning, said in an interview.

"We probably won't go any further," he said.

Frontier has been talking to other potential regional-jet partners and will continue to be able to do so through Jan. 1, he said.

Restrictions like those place by United "are very common, particularly with United," said Tony Christello, an analyst with BB&T Capital Markets. "They are not going to want to have another major competitor's codeshare partner having the opportunity to take revenue away from them in the same marketplace."

United spokesman Jeff McAndrews declined to comment on the matter.

Under a new 10-year deal, Phoenix-based Mesa will start flying 35 regional jets under the flag of United Express in August, in addition to the 10 turboprop planes it will begin flying for United from Denver International Airport on Sunday.

"I'm sure we will work things out (with Frontier) so it is amicable, whatever the result is," Ornstein said. "We really do like those guys, but it's hard to turn down a deal for 60 aircraft. Business becomes business."

For Frontier, Mesa today flies to eight cities from Frontier's DIA hub with five aircraft. Talks on an expansion of that deal had included the possibility of adding five to 10 jets.

Mesa lost $1.5 million on Frontier JetExpress in the January-March quarter, even after the companies revised the deal.
Frontier on March 1 began paying Mesa set fees for flying Frontier JetExpress routes and keeping all the revenue. Previously, the companies incurred their own costs and divided the revenue on a prorated basis.

Mesa is "now break even or a little bit better" on the alliance, Ornstein said.

Serving fliers with regional jets has become more popular in recent years as carriers look for ways to fly shorter routes that lack enough demand to fill larger, costlier planes.
 
big dog1 said:
http://www.rockymountainnews.com/dr...2083402,00.html


Mesa lost $1.5 million on Frontier JetExpress in the January-March quarter, even after the companies revised the deal.
Frontier on March 1 began paying Mesa set fees for flying Frontier JetExpress routes and keeping all the revenue. Previously, the companies incurred their own costs and divided the revenue on a prorated basis.

Mesa is "now break even or a little bit better" on the alliance, Ornstein said.

With a below 50% completion ratio what do you expect!!

WD.
 
Subcontracting to commuters never seems to yield the riches each party hopes for. Maybe companies like Jet Blue, that purchase their own regional jets, are setting a precedence.
 
Doesn't yeild riches.

crashpad,

I'm a little confused by your post and think you might be painting with a pretty broad brush.

To use UA and OO as an example, I've seen powerpoint slides from UA that showed the UAX operation contributed almost $300 million to their bottom line each year (hopefully that info wasn't developed using Enron accounting methods) and OO has been more than moderately profitable for the last several years to the tune of $20 to $50 million per year. Not amazing, but definately solid performance. Now, admittadly, I don't know what UA has spent on the UAX program so I don't know if it's worked out in their favor but I can't imagine that it hasn't and also granted that OO's DL operation contributed just more than half to that performance. I'm sure you'll agree that it's pretty tough to find a single major/single regional relationship to compare that against what with majors and regionals alike double dipping to one extent or another.

Ornstein himself has recently said (not a reliable source in my opinion but a matter of public record anyway) in news releases that the F9 operation only recently became marginally profitable for YV and this is just one example and a small part of their overall operation. I'm fairly certain that most regionals have made a profit in the last several years, and again, admittadly, I'll have to do some homework online on their past financials to back that up but I think it's fairly accurate so to sum it up, in most cases, at least one party has made a dime on these type of relationships so it's yielded riches for somebody.

Just my two cents.
 
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Re: Re: Frontier officials: Mesa may stop region

Wiskey Driver said:
With a below 50% completion ratio what do you expect!!

WD.

Hey WD, do you have a reference for claims like this or are you just blowing smoke again?
 
I am in Denver friend!! I ride with and speak with frontier crews and gate agents all the time. I don't think you really want to pull my bullSh it card on this subject do ya?!!!

WD.
 
1. I don't consider an airplane (re: Jetblue bought their own RJ's)with 2300 nm range and rvsm capability to be an RJ. But that's just me. Call it what you like.

2. An airline with a 50% completion factor would likely be out of business. I am pulling your B.S. card. Attribute some numbers to a source we can all trust. Not the old anecdotal "my friends told me." I'm not siding with Mesa, but please.....
 
1). I call them RJ's because that's the customer perception.

2).Skank is correct. 50 % is a bogus number.
My company ID beats WDs' BS card.
Sorry, WD. I really like your avatar, though.
 
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CP, you lost me on number 2 about the company ID. 50% is the number that was floating around a few months ago I don't know what the new number is if there is one.

WD.
 
Really WD, I expect MUCH better from you. 50%?, was that for a day, a week, an hour...the month? It all makes a big difference doesn't it.

The actual number from our SOC manager for last month was around 95%. While not great, it is certainly not as low as your "guess."

The low number is partly due to the fact that there is NO spare available. It was put on line to satisfy US's ranting and raving for more a/c.

Reading your posts is becoming more and more like watching CNN...never let the truth get in the way of a good story.

Enjoy your 4th...;)
 

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