Frontier and Cal express flying?

[Captain Happy]

Hey,

Does anybody have any new (as in real ) info on who's getting either the Frontier or Cal express flying?

Thanks,

Captain Happy

 

[MELIT]

Hey,

Does anybody have any new (as in real ) info on who's getting either the Frontier or Cal express flying?

Thanks,

Captain Happy

Not ASA. They are walking around SGU. My guess is they got lost trying to find vegas.

 

[Captain Happy]

No offense but I dont much care who didnt get the flying.

 

[Secret Squirrel]

Hey Happy, If you find out enough companies who didn't get the flying then you will know who got the flying. Kids today. It all has to be now now now. If they can't get what they want in a 30 minute tv show then they don't want to know.

 

[Captain Happy]

No, I just dont want the usless answer. But what should I have expected, this is flightinfo.com

 

[mckpickle]

If you don't want useless info than ask the right question. You make no sense. Are you talking about the Frontier flying? Or the Continental Express Flying? If it's CAL, CHQ long ago was awarded the flying. If it's frontier they haven't announced it yet.

 

[suupah]

If you don't want useless info than ask the right question. You make no sense. Are you talking about the Frontier flying? Or the Continental Express Flying? If it's CAL, CHQ long ago was awarded the flying. If it's frontier they haven't announced it yet.

I believe he was referring to the rfp's put out for Q400 flying

 

[Captain Happy]

Yup!!

 

[climb2slow]

There is no RFP out for Q400 flying, that will be done in-house by LYNX aviation....the RFP is for 70 seat RJ flying.

 

[ERfly]

There is no RFP out for Q400 flying, that will be done in-house by LYNX aviation....the RFP is for 70 seat RJ flying.

I don't believe it mentioned the amount of seats. It just mentioned RJ flying. Its only a coincidence that Horizon operated 70 seat RJs for F9 and now they're looking for a new carrier. It could be a 50-seat operator, too.

 

[climb2slow]

I don't have the press release handy, but i know for a fact that this RFP is ONLY for 70 seat aircraft. This was commnicated to us in several meetings as well as the investor call the day after the announcement.

 

[ratherbeflyen]

I don't have the press release handy, but i know for a fact that this RFP is ONLY for 70 seat aircraft. This was commnicated to us in several meetings as well as the investor call the day after the announcement.

Thats interesting. XJT put in a bid on that flying for 70 seats with no 70 seat planes?

 

[ReverseSensing]

Frontier courting regional clientele
More than 50 communities within 1,200 miles of DIA are asked about being served by smaller planes.

By Kelly Yamanouchi
Denver Post Staff Writer

Frontier Airlines has issued a request for proposals from communities interested in attracting flights on the carrier's regional jets or turboprop planes.

The Denver-based airline made the request this week to more than 50 communities throughout Colorado and within a radius of about 1,200 miles of Denver.

The move comes as Frontier starts up a subsidiary that will provide service with 74-seat Bombardier Q400 turboprop planes beginning in mid-2007. The carrier plans to fly the planes to as many as 18 destinations in Colorado and the Rocky Mountains.

Frontier also plans to expand its fleet of 70-seat regional jets to as many as 20 aircraft and is seeking a new regional-jet operator to replace Horizon Air.
According to an analyst report from Raymond James & Associates Inc., SkyWest and Republic airlines are "the likely leaders in the competition for this business."

In Colorado, communities including Steamboat Springs, Grand Junction, Aspen and Vail have expressed interest in Frontier flights. Airports outside Colorado also are interested in luring the carrier.

The turboprops and the regional jets are smaller than Frontier's "mainline" Airbus jets, which seat 114 or 132 passengers.

Staff writer Kelly Yamanouchi can be reached at 303-954-1488 or [email protected].

 

[TAWS]

I don't see SkyWest getting it, as there has been alot of talk at RAH about how UAL has non-compete agreements out of their hubs. If true, SkyWest could only do it through ASA, but RAH could do it through Republic. Don't know if it's true, but also heard Wexford (a financial group) owns alot of Frontier - they are also in bed with Bedford (RAH).

 

[Master Shake]

Thats interesting. XJT put in a bid on that flying for 70 seats with no 70 seat planes?

Didn't Republic do this exact same thing before they ever even had 1 EMB-170 on line? It has to start somewhere.

 

[Soverytired]

Well, I for one would like to see Mesa get some of the Frontier flying. Denver is a great domicile.

Not gonna happen, of course. Scope issues with United is what lost our contract in the first place.

Oh, and I don't remember a bunch of lov-ee dove-ee press releases about how much Frontier loved us when they/we cut loose, as opposed to when Horizon bailed. Read into that what you will.

 

[F9 Buff]

Mesa got cut loose because their performance was so bad! Nothing like having to pull a 737-200 nearly out of the bone yard to fly a 50 seat route that mesa couldn't cover.

 

[avrodriver]

Well, I for one would like to see Mesa get some of the Frontier flying. Denver is a great domicile.

Not gonna happen, of course. Scope issues with United is what lost our contract in the first place.

Oh, and I don't remember a bunch of lov-ee dove-ee press releases about how much Frontier loved us when they/we cut loose, as opposed to when Horizon bailed. Read into that what you will.

Could Mesa use thier Freedom certificate? It will be interesting to see how this plays out...sure seems like CHQ/SA/REP has alot on thier plate already for next year. Who would they short on airplanes to get the service started?

 

[ReverseSensing]

...a bunch of lov-ee dove-ee press releases...

Yeah, Horizon and F9: it's all about the lov-ee dov-ee. When you're screwing someone, it generally goes a little easier with a little sweet-talkin'.

 

[StaySeated]

I don't believe anyone was screwed. The agreement between F9 and Horizon included a review period during the 3rd year. Both sides agreed a seperation would be mutually beneficial. Horizon gets 9 planes back and F9 gets a cost-center and a cheaper feed. If you read F9's financial and do a little math the Horizon fee for departure was the most expensive on the planet, close to $5000 per departure.

 

[ReverseSensing]

I don't believe anyone was screwed.

Tell that to the QX pilots, flight attendants, mechanics, etc. who believed (and were not dissuaded by our management) that the 12-year deal was a 12-year deal, not a 3-year deal with an extension option. No one in the airline biz can insist on being insulated from base closures and upheaval, but the F9 operation was sold to the QX pilot group as something it wasn't.

F9 agreed to high rates insisting on superior service and reliability. It got what it paid for, but then apparently decided it couldn't afford what it asked for. F9 is just being fickle, and while QX management and the majority of the pilot group think cutting bait with F9 is a good move, it still has real impacts on those employees who were tacitly encouraged to think of DEN as their new home.

This is not a dig at the F9 pilot group or rank and file; it is simply an observation that F9 management, like almost all airline managements, will sell their partners (or more specifically their partners' employees) up the creek anytime they can make a dime doing so.

A lot of people from QX have put a lot of energy into the F9 Express operation; saying that no one's feeling screwed by F9's decision (to squeeze QX on rates, leading to QX telling F9 to take a hike) simply isn't realistic.

 

[F9 Buff]

I agree, when the Horizon deal started up a few years ago no one talked about how there was the opt out part of it. They just talked about how long it COULD have been good for. Not till about a year ago did anyone hear about this clause in the contract.

You would think the management at Horizon would have told their employees what was really up with that contract? I would also say that everything I saw and heard from Horizon was very good. You guys did a great job and it sucks that it went down like that but I don't see how you can be mad at anyone because it didn't continue.

It isn't one airline's management or even two that is to blame, it's just the nature of the business.

 

[StaySeated]

it still has real impacts on those employees who were tacitly encouraged to think of DEN as their new home.
.

Fair enough, but this is aviation afterall and F9 is not winning any earnings contests. Hopefully everyone involved will benefit as much as possible in the long run. If you are one of those employees that I wish you the best of luck.

 

[StormChaser]

Tell that to the QX pilots, flight attendants, mechanics, etc. who believed (and were not dissuaded by our management) that the 12-year deal was a 12-year deal, not a 3-year deal with an extension option. No one in the airline biz can insist on being insulated from base closures and upheaval, but the F9 operation was sold to the QX pilot group as something it wasn't.

Actually, it was a 12-year deal all along, with a clause built in for either side to opt out or amend the contract after 3 years. In my opinion, it made good business sense for both carriers, especially for F9 as they were coming out of what sounded like a rather turbulent partnership with Mesa. With the dynamics of this industry, a lot can change in 3 'short' years, and both companies were looking to protect their interests by having the option to amend or terminate the partnership.

And as for the QX employee group not knowing of the terms of the contract, while I will say the company could have informed us better as to the conditions, I was aware back in the Fall of 2004 of the opt-out possiblity after the first 3 years of the contract. In fact, many of us in Denver were aware, and I would bring that up with anyone I knew who was considering making the move out here.

I agree with F9 Buff that, unfortunately, it's just the nature of the industry we're in. I went through the Boise base closure, and if there's one thing I learned from that, it's not to chase the job. Find the place where you want to live and stay put. Yes, the commute may suck, and it's not for everyone, but it's better than the alternative many who just moved out here may soon be faced with.

 

[Soverytired]

When you're screwing someone, it generally goes a little easier with a little sweet-talkin'.

Sweet talk? I thought $$$ talks, and bull-shizit walks!

Best pickup line ever:

"Hi, I'm Joe Schmoe, and I have a billion dollar trust fund"


(works every time, if true, so I'm told)