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From Monday's WSJ

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NTSB Probes Regional Jet Safety
Following October Crash

By ANDY PASZTOR
Staff Reporter of THE WALL STREET JOURNAL
June 13, 2005

A hearing begins Monday to examine the 2004 crash of a commuter plane that killed two pilots and raised broad questions about pilot training, aircraft design and federal oversight.

The National Transportation Safety Board's public hearing is expected to start by examining why the inexperienced cockpit crew of a Bombardier regional jet operated by Pinnacle Airlines Inc. on behalf of Northwest Airlines took the unusual step of climbing to the maximum operating ceiling of 41,000 feet last Oct. 14 while ferrying the plane at night without passengers. After the pilots disregarded warnings of an impending stall, both engines stopped operating. The pilots regained control after a dive but were unable to restart the engines.

The crash near Jefferson City, Mo., was the first fatal accident in the U.S. involving one of the popular, smaller jet models increasingly replacing larger jetliners on many routes. But fallout from that crash, according to government and industry officials, has expanded well beyond issues dealing with the level of training and discipline of the pilots at the controls.

Investigators are delving into other factors, from Pinnacle's general approach to safety to the lack of awareness among many pilots of the unique hazards and handling characteristics if regional jets are flown at such high altitudes. In addition, safety board staff and pilot union officials are assessing the difficulties of restarting the type of General Electric Co. engines that were on the plane.

The Bombardier CL600 was approved to fly up to 41,000 feet, though it doesn't climb that high during normal service. Transcripts of the cockpit voice recorder indicate that one of the pilots told air-traffic controllers: "We don't have any passengers on board, so we decided to have a little fun and come up" to 41,000 feet.

The lessons likely to be learned from the crash focus on the aerodynamic forces that prompted the initial upset, as well as what went wrong as the pilots struggled in vain to reignite the engines of the crippled plane. Since the accident, Pinnacle, of Memphis, Tenn., and other operators of regional jets voluntarily have restricted them to 37,000 feet.

The safety board, Pinnacle, the plane's manufacturer and the Federal Aviation Administration all declined to comment. The FAA is quietly reviewing data from the Bombardier jet's initial regulatory approval.

Meanwhile, pilot groups have criticized the FAA for failing to adequately oversee fast-growing carriers such as Pinnacle, which in the past few years phased out its fleet of roughly three dozen turboprops and replaced them with more than 130 faster regional jets.
 
Word is the FAA is starting to come down on regionals that are allowing guys to upgrade on RJ's with very little time.
 
RoyalAviation2 said:
Word is the FAA is starting to come down on regionals that are allowing guys to upgrade on RJ's with very little time.

That is the lamest thing that you have ever said.

Ever.


Sincerely,

B. Franklin
 
RoyalAviation2 said:
Word is the FAA is starting to come down on regionals that are allowing guys to upgrade on RJ's with very little time.

What a load of huey! If you pass the type ride you pass, the FAR's state the minimum time and age for a type. If the FAA was to do that then they should go after the companies that are giving type rides in A/C that people have ZERO time in. Get information before spouting drible.
 
Passing a checkride means nothing, as this accident proves.
You morons who think that the whole universe of skill and knowledge is defined by the PTS are a danger to yourself and others.

It's just fortunate that there were no pax. Also good that some poor flight attendant didn't have to die.

Anyone remember that pic of a crashed airplane that's been around a while that says something like; "Flying in itself is not dangerous, but it is very unforgiving of any carelessness, incapacity, or neglect."

There is no excuse for crashing a perfectly good airplane.

None.
 
RoyalAviation2 said:
Word is the FAA is starting to come down on regionals that are allowing guys to upgrade on RJ's with very little time.

If this is true, it would be a wonderful thing. Too many novices masquerading as real pilots these days.
 
100LL... Again! said:
If this is true, it would be a wonderful thing. Too many novices masquerading as real pilots these days.

Just curious...what is a real pilot??? Guys who upgrade generally have 3000-3500 total hours with 2000-2500 multi and 500-1000 turbine? I don't know how other guys can upgrade without these times.
 
One who was fully prepared to sit in an airline cockpit from day one. Not one who spent the first 12 months on line learning how to fly.
 
100LL... Again! said:
Why do you care?

I think the more relevant question is why won't you ever tell anyone what airplane you fly and who you work for. Trying to hide something? Work for Eastern in '90 maybe? In class at GoJets now possibly? Gotta wonder if you won't give any info.
 
I have more experience than you, 128.

And - I was a 121 pilot back when you were still shelling out big bucks to help bring down the profession.
 
100LL... Again! said:
I have more experience than you, 128.

Judging by your profile, not very much more. Certainly not enough to brag about.

And - I was a 121 pilot back when you were still shelling out big bucks to help bring down the profession.

Interesting, still no reference to where you work or what you fly or what your background is. There must be some reason you're trying to hide all that. Or maybe you're just some 15 year old FS2004 wannabe who likes to stir up trouble.
 
100LL... Again! said:
I have more experience than you, 128.

And - I was a 121 pilot back when you were still shelling out big bucks to help bring down the profession.

4000H in you C150 doesn't really compare, enjoy your VFR flight.
 
I believe that part of the problem at regionals is the way training might be conducted. At times it seems that some training events are conducted very poorly and students are left to be self thought by reading and memorizing the book. No doubt that there's alot of stuff we should know and know well. But the tools provided need to match the task. Checkrides appear to be survival events and far from training and refreshing events. It is my opinion that the more comfortable you feel at a checkride or training event, the more you are going to learn. After a checkride or training event, all of us should come out of there feeling more confident about our skills and glad that we had a chance to refresh things that normally we don't see out on line. Sadly, the reason for poor training at some places may come down to the amount of money a particular company is willing to spend.

By the way, I have no working knowledge of Pennacle's training. Therefore, this is not directed at them specifically rather it is a generalization of what I believe the regional world is having to deal with.
 

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