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From Least-Most Difficult Planes to Fly!

  • Thread starter Thread starter TDTURBO
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T

TDTURBO

1 Piper Warrior
2 Piper Archer
3 Cessna 152
4 Cessna 172
5 Piper Arrow
6 Piper T-Tailed turbo Arrow
7 Cessna 182
8 Cessns 182RG


Keep going with your thought, I would like to have a compilation of ALL the aircraft that have flown by board members, and rate them on difficulty to fly........whadda think?:p
 
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Those are all light airplanes, and all essentially the same. Except for minor diferences, they all fly the same.

"Difficult," and "Airplane," don't really belong in the same comparitive sentence. Airplanes all but fly themselves. Change that out for backhoe, or helicopter, or juggling, and there's more room to work.

I've flown airplanes that aren't really stable enough to fly themselves, but these are more the exception, and generally it's still a matter of management rather than difficulty in flying.

The hardest part of flying an airplane is paying to learn...after that, it's just an investment of time. Later when the tables are turned and one is paid to learn, it's all about time and what you're willing to trade for it. Beyond that, manipulation of the controls is only a small thing.
 
Your missing my point avbug, I just wanted a progressively difficult list of planes that when read, slowly require you to handle more things in the cockpit ie; cowl flaps, gear, prop pitch, turbo boost...ect. Those kind of things so when you look at a guy flying a 172 and he wants to fly a Bonanza, he'll have a good idea of the planes he should fly first. Get it?
 
I'm assuming you mean an Arrow, not an Archer, for numbers 5 and 6... :D

I'm sitting here thinking about the relatively meager list of planes I've flown, and decided that I need a better definition of what constitutes a "difficult" plane to fly. For example, a 182 is certainly a more complex airplane than a 152, and its general heaviness requires more muscle to land, but up in the air, it's far easier to fly compared to a 152. The heaviness makes it a "point and go" airplane - instrument approaches and any precice flying are a snap in the Skylane.

As another example, of the planes I've flown, I found the Turbo Arrow (T-tail) to be one of the more difficult planes to grease onto the runway consistently. Same with the Comanche 260. The Duchess in comparison, is FAR easier to consistently land smoothly, at least for me. But the Duchess is also more airplane than either the Arrow or Comanche, and requires a bit more work. Not much - it's certainly an easy twin. But still, there's more to do - never mind when an engine decides to pack it in. Or what about an old Apache? Those things are awesome in the air. I love the handling. But man, those systems are something else!

I guess I'm rambling, so here's my list. I'm using a "how hard to grease on" definition, from easiest to most difficult. I'm going to combine planes that are essentially the same (landing-wise) on one line...

1) Piper Warrior / Archer
2) Cessna 172/172RG
3) Cessna 150/152
4) Piper Cherokee 140/180
5) Piper Tomahawk
6) Cessna 182/182RG
7) Piper Dakota
8) Beech Duchess
9) Piper Apache
10) Piper Cherokee 235
11) Beech Bonanza A36
12) Piper Turbo Arrow IV (T-Tail)
13) Piper Comanche 260
 
Oops...I was in the middle of writing my post when TD more clearly defined the parameters. Okay, so another list based on the number of things to screw with in the cockpit...

1) Cessna 150/152
2) Cessna 172
3) Piper Tomahawk
4) Piper Warrior / Archer
5) Piper Cherokee 140/180
8) Cessna 182
9) Piper Dakota
10) Piper Cherokee 235
11) Cessna 172RG
12) Cessna 182RG
13) Piper Turbo Arrow IV (T-Tail)
14) Piper Comanche
15) Beech Bonanza A36
16) Beech Duchess
17) Piper Apache
 
never in one but always thought a Convair 990 was a beast because of its really fast Vref..... its a 4 engine swept wing- hard wing craft.. only 37 built...has anyone flown the 880 or 990 Convair?
 
bigD said:
I'm assuming you mean an Arrow, not an Archer, for numbers 5 and 6... :D

I'm sitting here thinking about the relatively meager list of planes I've flown, and decided that I need a better definition of what constitutes a "difficult" plane to fly. For example, a 182 is certainly a more complex airplane than a 152, and its general heaviness requires more muscle to land, but up in the air, it's far easier to fly compared to a 152. The heaviness makes it a "point and go" airplane - instrument approaches and any precice flying are a snap in the Skylane.

As another example, of the planes I've flown, I found the Turbo Arrow (T-tail) to be one of the more difficult planes to grease onto the runway consistently. Same with the Comanche 260. The Duchess in comparison, is FAR easier to consistently land smoothly, at least for me. But the Duchess is also more airplane than either the Arrow or Comanche, and requires a bit more work. Not much - it's certainly an easy twin. But still, there's more to do - never mind when an engine decides to pack it in. Or what about an old Apache? Those things are awesome in the air. I love the handling. But man, those systems are something else!

I guess I'm rambling, so here's my list. I'm using a "how hard to grease on" definition, from easiest to most difficult. I'm going to combine planes that are essentially the same (landing-wise) on one line...

1) Piper Warrior / Archer
2) Cessna 172/172RG
3) Cessna 150/152
4) Piper Cherokee 140/180
5) Piper Tomahawk
6) Cessna 182/182RG
7) Piper Dakota
8) Beech Duchess
9) Piper Apache
10) Piper Cherokee 235
11) Beech Bonanza A36
12) Piper Turbo Arrow IV (T-Tail)
13) Piper Comanche 260


BigD,

Don't forget about the P210 or the T210 before we get into twins. I am quite certain that there are many single more difficult to fly than twins as well. What about the Lancair IVP or the Ciruss 22sp?or the RV4's and S2B's.........keep'em com'in!:D
 
C150 is the easiest ive flown, might be tough now casue its lighter than air and the toughest was an MU2. **CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED** wing span doesnt exist. Any plane that has spoilerons because there eisn't enough wing for ailerons is gonna be an issue on short final when Vref speeds are in the low 100's!!! Not enough air over the spoilers to give enough roll. gotta be 10 secs ahead of that one, but the tough ass landing gear helped...never had to grease in a cargo MU2...who cared, my back and ass hurt but plane handled fine.
 
TD - well, my list was just planes that I personally have PIC time in, but there are certainly some singles that would be more of a pain than the wussy twins I've been flying!

I've always heard that the MU-2 is a challenge. I personally love the MU-2, but man, just looking at the panel makes me think that plane is hard core.
 
I like the thread to a certain extent but whenever I hear a pilot say that an aircraft is "difficult" to operate then I tend to walk if not run in the opposite direction since it is my opinion that with proper training and "experience" no piece of equipment should be "difficult" IF the pilot is up to the task and has been put through the ringer a few times and has been tested....

I will use the word "tricky" ( with regards to low time in the airplane initially) in my listing of the following:D :D

easiest to "trickiest":D :D

1. C152
2. C172
3. C172RG - A36 - V35 ( tie) !
4. AA5A
5. BE90
6. BE300/350
7. BE100
8. C414
9. C421
10. Twin Commanche

10 years from now I am sure the "lisiting" may be quite different.. I do have friends that operate the MU-2 and they agree that it can bite ya in a heart beat if you get behind the aircraft...

3 5 0:D :D
 
so when you look at a guy flying a 172 and he wants to fly a Bonanza, he'll have a good idea of the planes he should fly first.

TD- IF you are considering a move and wanting to purchase a "Bananna" ( ! ) then I envy you.... The A-36 and V-35 are two of my all time favorites and they are very easy to operate. Don't worry about anything since you should transition just fine and I doubt you would need to "work" your way up to those planes- just find a good CFI with time in those airplanes and you should be good to go. The big ole IO-550 300 hp engines get ya there faster also.:D :D

If ya get the chance to fly one I suggest that you do so.

3 5 0

Fletcher (HOU ) had a gorgeous 1966 V-35 at a reasonable price.
(miss those days... )
 
1. C150...
10. "Flying the panel" on anything made in the 60s. Take your pick, 727, L10, DC-8, etc.
 
Is there something particularly challenging about the sixties? Nothing much different than equipment built in the fifties...and really not a whole lot different than what came out of the 40's. Pistons to turboprops, but working the panel on one isn't much different than another...the basics of the respective systems don't change much. The 70's didn't bring a whole lot of change either.

Probably the most challenging airplane I've flown wasn't fast, or particularly high performance...or necessarily hard to fly. I spent his last summer in a polish airplane, and like some airplanes of it's type or class, it's not really very stable. Not dramatically so, nothing unmanagable, but just enough to keep you awake.

The rudder movement in the airplane never stops...always working the rudders. It's short coupled and takes a lot of rudder. Get in behind a ridge with some good solid wind coming over the top, and full control deflection with aileron and rudder wouldn't stop it from rolling over. Come into a tight canyon and suddenly find that there is no climb performance, and that gets your attention. Not difficult, but it did posess a certain challenge.

It would go from cruise speed to stall buffet when crossing a ridge with windshear and rotors in a second...and being a turboprop it had no quick fix on the power. The nose on these types of airplanes is long enough that it's a toss up in a strong crosswind on the correction: sometimes the moment of a gust on the nose is stronger than that on the vertical stab. The airplane can yaw into or away from the wind. Like many conventional gear, any significant braking will put it on it's nose, and reverse thrust on landing can result in a fast loss of control if not careful.

Most notable was ferrying the airplane home at the end of the season. Half way, decided that nature was calling and it was time to answer. Because of the cockpit layout, some degree of gynastics were required, and I quickly found that trying to stand or lean resulted in a turn in that direction. Lean forward, the airplane dives, lean left, the airplane keeps going left. It doesnt' stop, either, unless it's recovered.

Other higher performance equipment is less stable and goes south faster, but not without assistance at low level and close to terrain. It was a refreshing change of pace from the regular job, getting to fly something that requires a little attention for a change.

Still, in terms of difficulty, one can't say that a J-3 is easier to fly than a Bonanza, or visa versa. One might have learned to fly in a V-35 and be quite proficient. One might then get into a cub and kill one's self. There are no complex systems and no great performance issues with the cub. It's simple, straightforward, and easy. It can also eat your lunch.

Likewise, one who has experience in an arrow may find himself in a world or hurt when faced with the lesser performance of a cherokee 140. It's all relative.

A flight instructor who has flown nothing but apaches and Cessna 172's may have a short, steep learning curve when jumping into the right seat of a lear when changing to a 135 job. However, in short order, it will all become clear. It's not nearly as big a leap as the instructor might have thought. Let him go a year in the lear, and then put him back in a cessna 150. He may not be able to land it at less than 90 knots, or use less than 3,000' of runway doing it. Suddenly the 150 is harder than the lear.

Which is more difficult? You tell me. I haven't a clue. It's just an airplane. I fly them, and if I can do it, believe me, anybody can. If I can do it, then it's certainly not difficult.

Change the characteristics of the airplane. A heavy Cessna 207 in terrain will be a lot more challenging to fly than a light Cessna 210 operating from a paved long runway. The way in which it's operated make a huge difference. Most any airplane could be flown by gradeschool kids if left squarely within the limits of it's operating envelope. Drag it out near the edges or begin to work the airplane, and that's another matter entirely.

There's nothing like coming up on a set of powerlines and debating your ability to go over them, and the wisdom of going under them, then making a decision, acting, and seeing it happen in just under a second and a half. A very clarifying moment.

Conversely, flying an airplane in instrument conditions in weather, on a complex approach proceedure may be increadibly challenging. Shut down an engine and fail a system, then do it single pilot, and a very easy airplane to fly just became a monster. Take a benign airplane under simple conditions and just go to partial panel...something everyone trains to do, but few ever do in real life...and it can and often does become a killer.

Then again, a Cessna 172P will hurt you just as badly, and kill you just as dead as a Lear25D...which is more difficult? Neither. It's all very relative. Relative to your experience, the conditions, the mission, the loading and configuration, and many other factors. After all, it's just an airplane, and it's been designed to be user friendly. The question is, how friendly are you??
 
DC8 as a FE on a 20 minute flight. Or worse yet, a touch and go.
j
 
Easy:
What ever you are comfortable in

Difficult for me:
Hansa Jet, just imagine a Lear 23 with the added stability (sic) of forward swept wings!

Aerostar, a great flying airplane, but with a grand total of 4 landings in one do you really think I'm comfortable with that f$cking ground steering button?

Admittedly I have less then 10 hours combined in both of these airplanes, I’m sure some HF320 driver is laughing at me.
 
Not difficult, just different

I mostly go along with the lists above because I've flown many of the aircraft mentioned. I don't see Mooney mentioned, though. We had Mooney MO20s (M20J) at FSI. I believe ERAU-Daytona had them as well. I remember how the Mooneys broke suddenly and dropped a wing during stalls. Also, they require good advance planning and speed management for decents to the airport and pattern work, which is actually excellent training for faster and slicker aircraft. I had a total of exactly one checkout flight in a Mooney before receiving students. I wished I had more because I didn't feel sufficiently ready to instruct in them after one flight. They take some getting used-to after one's flying has primarily been in Cessna and Piper.

Same for the A36 Bonanzas. IASCO and, I believe, IFTA uses them for training. So does MAPD. They break suddenly in stalls and drop wings if you don't stay on the rudders to maintain wings level. Takeoff-departure stalls are a spin waiting to happen if you don't stay on top of the airplane. I remember how Mesa's syllabus required night stall practice in the A36s. I was not thrilled about that.

Really, an airplane is an airplane. If you've been trained properly, you should be able to fly any airplane. Some require more experience and training than others. Don't forget the story of the B-26. An extremely hot airplane for the times, with something like a 120 kt+ approach speed. "One a day in Tampa Bay" until the AAF figured out that new B-26 pilots weren't getting enough and proper training. It took Jimmy Doolittle driving B-26s around on one engine to prove that the airplane was fine.

We don't train Cessna or Piper pilots per se, but we train pilots to fly airplanes. Of course, going from something like slow Cessnas to Barons takes time because things happen faster, but you catch up.

PS-I don't see Seminoles mentioned. Really, an extremely friendly airplane. An Arrow with two engines, basically. Of course, as a twin it requires respect, but not as much respect as a Baron requires.
 
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its all relative

two years ago the list would have went:

1. Cessna 172
2. Lear 35

Today after flying the lear for a while and no Cessna 172 time the list would be:

1. Lear 35
2. Cessna 172
 
I thought a Seneca was a real pain in the arse to land...
GA highwings are pretty much the same for me, some are just less sloppy than others
GA lowwings take a bit more finessing, and there's more of a prop strike possibility

Take it for all that it's worth...but I think airplanes are meant to be high wing (look at birds:D )
 
For the easiest I would put the Cub at the top of the list. The hardest part is the descion making process of not taking it out on the windy days (10 knots surface winds max IMO).

Remember the Cub can just barely kill ya.
 

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