Frieght/passenger airlines

[VaB]

Profile,

I didn't mean to imply that hourly rates were the best way to measure a contract. I was simply saying that it is probably, in this forum anyway, one of the easier ways to compare 2 airlines payscales. A very, very basic way to compare, instead of using Air Inc "stats". Like I said there are other big things, retirement, vacation, work rules that all make a huge difference in the actual contract.

As far as the ALPA thing... I'll admit that since I've spent the first 12 years of my flying career in the Navy and only the last 1 year in the airline biz, my knowledge of this whole thing is slim to none and I'll defer to your experience and knowledge of the subject. But it's my feeling that joining ALPA is the next step for us as a pilot group, if for no other reason then their political strength in DC. They've been around alot longer than FPA and, I would guess, know a few more congressman and have a bit more pull there. But like I said, I'm still dancing around because I made it through probation without visiting the ACP's office and don't have alot of experience and knowledge on this subject, so I'm not even going to try to argue with you, or even try to convince you. I do think you're right though that ALPA is not a magic bullet and all our problems aren't going to be solved when we join them.

See ya out there.

 

[SpeedRacer]

FedEx pay

To begin with APLA has my vote - period.

FPA gave away our trip rig (4.0 wow! - highest in the industry) and I believe we'll have more political clout with ALPA. ALPA WILL NOT get us a contract (no s**t sherlock) - WE have to get it ourselfves and unify as a crewforce.

Also, if someone wants some information about our salaries I'll help out and pass it on.

Finally, last time I checked we were paid by the hour and not salary employees. Even though it's a small part of our longer list, it's still important in my opinion.

Someone once told me "united we negotioate, divided we beg". Kinda like what happend on our first contract!

 

[profile]

Did you not go see a road show and listen to George Sees as he explained explained the logic behind the rigs? Here is what he said:

Take 2 rigs, one that nets 8 hrs/day, the other that nets 4 hrs/day. At first glance, it would appear the higher rig (the one that pays 8/day) is a better deal. However, remember that the opimizer will always build trips to the rig. It knows it pays us the same whether we fly 4 hard hours or 8 hard hours with the higher rig, so it builds toward the 8 hrs. This is not what we want, that is too much work. So, what's the solution? You leave the rig at 4 hrs but double the hourly rate, so you get paid the same for less work. Imagine that your block time is 5 hrs for the day. You actually make MORE at the lower rig.

Now, the problem (I'm sure you see this) is that our hourly rate needs to be adjusted way up to make this work properly. So, my opinion is that we leave the rig alone and adjust the hourly rate WAY up!

As to the notion that "ALPA Rig" is higher, that is just silly. There are ALPA carriers out there with NO rig, there are some with the same rig as ours, and some with tighter rigs. APA and AA has a tighter rig, and they're not ALPA. ALPA national does not care what rig you have either. It is up to the pilot group to decide what they'll accept. The contract was ratified and did result in big improvements, but we were in a weak position, less because of what union we had than because this was a first contract.

The biggest thing ALPA will bring is the ability to tell our pilots that "such and such" is a good deal and the larger group trusting ALPA in that. FPA could try to present the same thing and be distrusted by too many of our pilots that really aren't aware what is in other carrier contracts, only aware of bits and pieces.

 

[UPS Capt]

12th yr UPS Capts are at 183.60/hr based on a 75 hr guarantee per pay period (there are 13 pay periods per year). That comes out to around $179,000 a year. The guarantee goes to 190.00/hr on 7/13/02 (about $185,000). F/O's and F/E's are paid a percentage of Capt's pay. 12th yr F/O's and F/E's are 67% and 57% respectively.

There is no differential pay for aircraft flown. A B727 Capt makes the same base pay as a B747 Capt. The company pays you for unused sick time at the end of the year which could potentially net another $10-12K a year. Another 15-20K if you're an IOE or Sim instructor.

All in all, freight is a much more stable and secure career. People may be afraid to fly but they'll still send boxes and letters. I fly out of my domicile and usually sleep in my own bed everyday. I don't have to deal with the everyday headaches of a passenger terminal with all the added security hoops to pass through. A career flying pax is too cyclical in nature for my tastes with massive hiring followed a few years later by massive furloughs. It's always been that way and probably always will be.

The down side is that there is a lot of night flying and difficult hours. If you're very senior you can fly day trips out of domicile and sleep in your own bed every night. But then again, as a junior crewmmember at a pax carrier, you'll probably fly your fair share of red-eyes...that's if your still employed after a couple years.

 

[oilcanbland]

Are they hiring??

UPS Capt., you said that the frieght way is the more stable type of flying. I was just wondering, are the frieght companies hiring right now after the attacks and all of that stuff?

 

[profile]

FedEx has a class of new hires in school right now and is still interviewing. The next class will be until after December, last I heard.

 

[UPS Capt]

UPS does not have any classes scheduled for the rest of this year and I don't have any info on hiring next year. The little brown school house usually shuts down every year in Nov and Dec because of the Xmas peak season.

Business is back to pre 9/11 levels. It dropped only about 10% right after the terrorist attacks and quickly rebounded. That probably had to do with the fact we were about to enter peak season. No furloughs are planned.

 

[habubuaza]

To your original question, freight by far is much more stable than the passenger airlines. I believe (and don't quote me on this) but a good rule of thumb is take the gross revenue on the best day of a typical passenger trip i.e. Chicago to London and multiply by 4 for the freighter along the same route. Here's another good one. A few years ago circa 1995 I was working at JFK as a cargo sales rep. A friend of mine was a manager for ASIANA Cargo. They were the first airline in the world to use a 747-400F. They used it about 3 days a week on the New York - Seoul run with a tec stop in ANC. One night he showed me some paper work on the flight and told me that every trip going and coming back NETS over $1,000,000 in profit. That's over $2,000,000 in PROFIT per round trip. Go figure.