Freedom Air?

[becket]

Lumberyak,

I think you totally over estimate the power of Alpa. Freedom pilots will be going to any major when they start hiring again. Then again, most of the captains are furloughed major pilots and they'll just be returning. Who is going to police who gets called for an interview. Bona Fide Eastern scabs are everywhere, Continental scabs were welcomed back with open arms. Alpa is an impotent, back stabbing, "senior centric" entity whose effectivness has been void for a very long time. This idea of a Freedom "blacklist for life" is laughable.

 

[Shag_McNasty]

becket,

Please stop interjecting wisdom into these posts. I love hearing how these militant bad@ss regional pilots are going to destroy the careers of Freedom pilots. LOL.

 

[Snakum]

Just a brief word about the issue with lists and jumpseats from a non-airline type ...

First, I should say that when I spoke to the PACE people at Mesa pre-9/11 to discuss prospects for actually getting a job there afterwards, I was told that there was a new airline in the works at Mesa that would just about guarantee me a job after successfully completing PACE. So I guess if I'd actually gone - and I was VERY close to going - I coulda been sitting in the right seat of a CRJ700 instead of sitting in this office. Ignorance, at the time, was bliss. If I had the opportunity now (not an issue because I'm broke now) I don't think I could do it because I support (to an EXTENT) organized labor and it appears in this case Freedom was indeed created with the intent to eventually try to do away with Mesa and cut everyone elses throat even deeper. I'm all about capitalism, but this situation kinda stinks.

OK now ... about the ramifications ...

Getting on with a major - It is my understanding that many on the list are furloughed US Air mainline. I have a hard time believing that Freedom on a resume will sink you automatically. There are just too many pilots on the BIG list that are currently working at majors (airlines other than the one where they made the list), most hired when ALPA was stronger than today. I have spoken to major airline pilots over the years about the SCAB question and without exception, it was regarded as not that big of a deal with the pilots I spoke too. That one just doesn't compute based on what I know.

Jumpseating - I have spoken to two people who are actually on the BIG list, one in person and one via email, and I was told that neither of them have ever been denied a jumpseat in 20 years of flying. I was told they HAVE been lectured on the issue, but have always ridden. So I'm not sure jumpseating will be much of an issue after the initial commotion over Freedom has subsided. Sure, some have already been denied the seat, but I don't think that will be a regular occurance. Again, based on what I know it just doesn't compute.

In short, guys on the BIG list have experienced few problems over the years, and at Continental a couple hundred of them are back in ALPA. So what does that really mean for a pilot who has never crossed a line, only took a job with an unpopular company?

I'm not defending Freedom, nor would I work there. But not for the reasons you guys are stating over and over. It just doen't compute.

Minh "Coulda Been On The List" Thong

 

[embdrvr]

Jumpseating - I have spoken to two people who are actually on the BIG list, one in person and one via email, and I was told that neither of them have ever been denied a jumpseat in 20 years of flying.

Freedom has been specifically excluded from the jumpseat list at Mesa, America West, Sky West, and ASA. That is not an all-inclusive list, just one that I compied because I know pilots from those airlines and asked them. If you're not on the list you probably won't even get past the gate agent like you used to be able to do pre 9/11.
Hopefully all ALPA airlines will remove Freedom from their list.

 

[got_jumpseat?]

There's a Freedom guy that lives in Rapid City S.D.

He jumpseated on us one time using his old MESA i.d.
We asked him what he flew & he said he was going to the 50 seat RJ. After the flight we saw a list we realized he was Freedom.
He's white in his mid 40's with balding hair. I realize were not union, but these guys represent a threat to every regional out there by underbidding for contracts!!

I wont post their names but I know of actually two or maybe three Rapid City SD Freedom pilots. Just make sure you follow your companies rules regarding the FAR's and the cockpit jumpseat. I just saw on ALPA.org a reciprocal cockpit jumpseat deal is about to be approved by the TSA by the end of January and I would hate for a freedom pilot to botch it up for everybody all over again for another two years. If they won't have it hard enough already that would be the cake. Make sure they use their proper ID. Allowing them to ride is your discretion.

 

[got_jumpseat?]

Here is the info on the JS
http://www.alpa.org/alpa/DesktopModules/ViewDocument.aspx?DocumentID=1587

I wont post their names but I know of actually two or maybe three Rapid City SD Freedom pilots. Just make sure you follow your companies rules regarding the FAR's and the cockpit jumpseat. I just saw on ALPA.org a reciprocal cockpit jumpseat deal is about to be approved by the TSA by the end of January and I would hate for a freedom pilot to botch it up for everybody all over again for another two years. If they won't have it hard enough already that would be the cake. Make sure they use their proper ID. Allowing them to ride is your discretion.

 

[Jeepman]

when did it become a crime to be the lowest bidder? Mesa has done it for decades. There is nothing wrong with freedom.

I'll remember that when I am going to some payday loan place because I don't make any money flying a 70/90 seat RJ where the pay is nothing because our company is competing with airlines like Freedom.


To those who think that SkyWest is like Freedom, I fail to see how because we didn't walk all over our fellow coworkers who were laid off to go work for Free-dumb Air (Free for management, dumb for pilots)

 

[WileE]

With regards to their future.

The doubts that some folks have raised that Freedom pilots are sinking their own careers strikes me as naive. If you go to an airline interview, you are not being interviewed by some vague "company" that will be hiring you. At some point in the process you will be sitting down across the table from a pilot at that company that is also a member of the union that represents that carriers pilots. He knows your name before he sits down at the table across from you.

By flying for Freedom now, anyone who thinks they will get on with a major later are gambling that that pilot across the table isn't going to spend the 15 seconds to pull out a piece of paper with the list of Freedom names on it and crosscheck. Any chance of getting on with that airline lies in the hands of that interviewer. When hiring resumes again, and it will, there will be thousands of qualified applicants for those jobs. The last thing you want is any kind of black mark that will make them choose the other guy. Right now and for the foreseeable future, Freedom is going to be about the biggest black mark you can possibly have on your resume.

I can see those two drunk America West guys getting picked up again if it came down to a choice between them and a former Freedom pilot.

Freedom's not going to be around very long and these guys have already done serious damage to their careers. When it finally goes down the Mesa guys will probably have to accept them back into their seniority list (reluctantly and with a lot of grumbling) but no one else has to.

 

[climbhappy]

the real issue

isn't the real issue the FACT that major airlines have lowered ticket prices 15 to 20 percent since the dropoff and 9/11....and further.....are now trying to reduce all business fares to match the LCC's.....isn't the real problem the screwed up pricing practices of every airlines sales/marketing dept......

if a widget cost 5 dollars to make, then you have to charge 7 dollars to ensure profits and cover overhead.... if you charge three dollars .... you end up in bankruptsy....

adapting to change is the key to survival in business... since demand hasn't been stimilulted again yet, then your company as well as mine better run a tight ship if we're to be around in five years.

at some point predatory pricing practices end up spelling doom for the perpetrator..... just be patient

 

[Simon Says]

To All Mesa Pilots:

I cannot wait for those freedom guys to show up in MEM. I got some questions that I would love to ask them all. Anyways, keep up the fight, we here at XJ are with you.