Free Meals Stopped @DAL

[General Lee]

Cataayakk,


What? Do you guys get random drug tests on the corporate side? Man alive. Yeah, I am still around, I have been flying my rear end off. We had a bunch of early retirements lately and then they stopped the furlough recalls, so we are very short. I have been caught in the jetway after I finished my trip to start a new one, and that isn't a lot of fun. But, I am doing fine, so thanks for worrying.


You know, there is a good way to make sure of not getting deep vein thrombosis, and that is kissing up to your employer and making sure he/she gets you a business class (elite) ticket on those long transoceanic flights. If your attitude on this board is the same around your boss or bosses, then there is no wonder why you continue to sit in coach. Also, if you try our Song product, you will be suprised that you actually have a lot more room than most LCCs. And, another factor could be that you are out of shape. Maybe a gym membership is in store for you. There are many ways to help you enjoy the Delta experience, and I hope you do so and find peace one day.

Also, ATL really doesn't have a hue of Song terminal decor, since Song only has a few flights a day into ATL, and they park at one or possibly two gates, none of which are fully Song gates. The smell you might be smelling is your lack of deoderant. and 5 day old pilot shirt you started wearing in Eastern Europe. Please bring more than one on those long trips-----much appreciated.


Thanks for flying Delta and Song.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[CatYaaak]

General,

Delta Business Class Elite....been there, done that, but nobody gave me a T-shirt due to cuts in overhead I suppose. Don't worry though, my boss likes me just fine, thinks my attitude is swell because...well...it actually is (I know this is inconceivable to you that I like my job and it pays well, but then again when has an airline environment ever NOT sucked the fun out flying, and as a rationalization for giving up this enjoyment, when did a Legacy carrier pilot ever NOT tell themselves their's was the best flying job in the world?) and contractually, I travel business class or better except when there's nothing available, so then it's coach. Such are the breaks when you have to get to work and buy last-minute tickets to varying destinations in order to take-over an aircraft which is on the move. Not in Eastern Europe much though. Sadly, I don't think there's anything there expensive enough for him to want to buy.

As far as working out.....I'm far too lazy for that! Jeez General, you're the one needing those drug tests. I mean, why on earth would anyone intentionally turn "work" that isn't real hard work into REAL work by working-out when they aren't working??? Fortunately, I was blessed with either good DNA or a 30 foot-long tapeworm, because although people think I work out, the only "out" I ever am at work when I'm not working is "out by the pool" and "out on the beach" if it's winter, or "staying the he11 out of the desert sun" in the summer.

I can't really comment about Song relative to other LLCs regarding comfort, because I think I've only ridden on an LLC once. SWA I believe, perhaps 12 years ago, but to be honest I really don't recall much about it, so either I've blocked the memory due to it's horror, or those particular brain cells were killed-off by rampaging beer molecules somewhere along the way. I've never ridden on Song, but that doesn't matter because.....

......this New Airline Age philosophy you speak of...let's call it "LLC Comfort Relativism"....doesn't overrule good old-fashioned and time-tested Platonic Objective Reality which says I don't HAVE to compare Song to other LLCs to make a value judgement. All I have to know is whether Song's seat pitch/legroom is the same as what you find in Delta mainline's economy class, which has the known and measureable, lackluster quality of being designed for Oompa Loompas, and can therefore can be used as a barometer to gauge whether Song is substandard...a barometer I absolutely REFUSE to recalibrate unless, for some unexplained reason, I wake up one morning to find I've suddenly become a wee Munchkinland Munchkin and Song has announced innaugural service between all major cities in OZ featuring Guild-label lollipops instead of pretzels for inflight snacks on aircraft fitted with Flying Monkey-strike kits.

So if there is more legroom etc, you may have a point and I might actually give Song a try if one of your planes was ever going my way (or perhaps for no other reason than to bring the crew some Chik Fillets and in return have them deliver your "Dukes" lunchbox to your crewroom where you can pick it up). Who knows? I may indeed "enjoy the Delta experience" for the first time since having that Delta girlfriend many years ago, and possibly the first-ever enjoyable Delta experience while actually in the air.

However, if Song's legroom/pitch is the same as DAL mainline's or less, then all you're telling me is that instead of the combination-airplane/torture chambers I've been unfortunate enough to spend a little time in, you now have ENTIRE AIRCRAFT dedicated to the task of seeing how quickly you can calcify a person's body from the waist down while brainwashing them into believing they're getting a "better value" because THEY get to watch TV as it happens, whereas the poor, dumb schmucks riding in your competitors' similar Agonyclaustrocraft merely get to count the threads in the seatback 3 inches from their face.

Hey, people get paid by pharmeceutical companies to let them use their bodies for experimentation....and THAT is experimentation designed to make people feel BETTER. You guys shouldn't be charging people to fly...you oughta be paying them at least 10 times whatever the going $$$ drug company rate is for people to enter and willingly strap themselves into one of your Flying Pain Laboratories. For me, thanks but no thanks.

What does any of this have to do with free lunches?......beats the sh1t outta me.

 

[General Lee]

Cattayakk,


There you go, you seem a lot more calm now and not as offensive. I am glad your employer gives you the ability to fly business class when available. That is the way you should be treated. And, if you did try Delta and flew business elite service to Europe or South America, then I bet you would like it, since the seats are very comfortable and the space allowed is unbelieveable. The seats are very expensive to build and have many seating options, and as long as you can handle a grandma aged lady serving you wine and cheese and then a good selection of meals, then you would enjoy it I am sure. Travelling coach on long distance flights with screaming babies and smelly fellow passengers around could $uck for anyone. I have chosen the cockpit jumpseat, even to or from Europe, rather than sit in the middle in coach across the pond.


As far as Song goes, I think you would enjoy it. I don't know if there is a major difference between mainline coach and Song seating as far as space goes, but apparently there is a small difference. Why? I don't know. Song does have a superior IFE system, and I think more domestic 757s will be switched to Song (at least 12 more)---so there is a better chance that you may be able to try it. We are starting at least one daily Song flight from JFK to LAX and SFO in place of one of the mainline 757 flights soon---and the other flights will have mainline 767-300s with first class seating for those business types who need the upgrade. It will be the best of both worlds---a choice for consumers. Those who have ridden on Song tend to like it and often come back. That is what we are trying to accomplish----repeat business---and Song caters to a certain type of traveller, and our first class product caters to another. I think both work---and I get smiles from passengers deplaning on both---probably because of my great smooth landings.......


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[JohnQ]

I should probably not jump in, but against my better judgment, here is a better breakdown of the crew meals issue.

For decades, Delta did not provide crew meals for any crews during domestic operations. Delta always has--and continues to--for international ops (meaning transoceanic or south of the equator--not just outside the CONUS). I always thought that was unwise, but that was the rule. Crews either purchased food or got leftovers from 1st class--or in the old days, even coach!

It was the same way with the jumpseat. Until 1996 Delta offered no JS even to its own employees, much less any other carriers. (As an aside, the Delta pilots BOUGHT the jumpseat with a concessionary contract in 1996; then mgmt just gave it to the FAs. I have yet to hear a "thank you" from any JSing FA, but by now they have all forgotten...I digress).

Anyway, a few years ago, our former Chief Pilot Dave Bushy (now at JetBlue, and a great guy), responding to pilot concerns, initiated a crew meal program for domestic operations. The crew meals in question are boxed meals, and the quality varies. Sometime it is quite good, sometimes not even palatable. That was initially a flight ops management initiative, and appreciated by me at least! Of course our mgmt is terrified that FAs might unionize, so similar to the JS, the FAs got crew meals ONLY because the pilots got them first.

With our 2001 contract, crew meals became a contractual benefit--pretty much the same rules, but now codified in the contract. Out recent concessions called for domestic crew meals to be eliminated. And of course THAT is why FA crew meals are being eliminated. Lastly, new company policy is that if there is any leftover perishable food-for-sale, the crews can have one item for free.

My opinion? I truly wish that they had at least kept breakfast meals for the early morning departures. There have been many times where no concessions were even open, but I had a nice bowl of cereal or oatmeal along with some yogurt and perhaps some fruit, that really hit the spot. Now I will be stashing some stacks of protein bars to make up for it--but I'll get over it. As for all other times--I can live without having the crew meals.

But I just love the press, advertising the "removal" of a flight attendant item that they never had for decades, and only have recently had because the pilots did.

But that is ops normal at Delta. Hope this hasn't bored anyone to death.

 

[FDJ2]

The domestic crew meals have only been around Delta for the last few years. They are only on flights that have limited opportunities for crews to purchase meals on there own, typically on short turns or long transcon flights. These free meals will be gone soon. Crews will now be able to get one free parishable meal that's left over on flights with food for purchase service and of course any first class meals that are left over. On most Song flights I much prefer the free food then the free crew meals and the trans con flights typically have some free first class meals left over too as well as sandwiches and salads from the food for purchase service. When the Delta MEC announce the end of the crew meal program during a recent road show there was applause from the pilots in attendance. The crew meal program was an appreciated gesture, but it was more costly then effective and the quality varied.

 

[General Lee]

The only people that really loved the crew meals were the stews. I always give mine away---unless there is a Snickers bar....



Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[On Your Six]

The only people that really loved the crew meals were the stews. I always give mine away---unless there is a Snickers bar....



Bye Bye--General Lee

Looks like the Delta stews enjoyed A LOT of meals every day.

 

[General Lee]

Good one six. Sad but true.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[av8instyle]

Catyaaak,

I don't think I've seen you here before, but you have a lot of posts, so you must have been here for a while - or very busy lately. Either way, your posts remind me of the ones I've seen on the Yahoo and some other boards that the general public can access. Like many of the other yohoos that post on this board, it seems you guys enjoy it just a little too much when a major airline pilot has something negative happen to his career. Why do you have to be such a d!ck?

 

[Mugs]

When the 50 minute turn becomes only a 10 minute turn and Yaaak has a tight connection on the next leg ....... ahhhh, dang time to stand in line at Burger Hut.

 

[CatYaaak]

Catyaaak,

I don't think I've seen you here before, but you have a lot of posts, so you must have been here for a while - or very busy lately. Either way, your posts remind me of the ones I've seen on the Yahoo and some other boards that the general public can access. Like many of the other yohoos that post on this board, it seems you guys enjoy it just a little too much when a major airline pilot has something negative happen to his career. Why do you have to be such a d!ck?

'Scuse me for not joining the Pity Party, or classify what's transpired as "something negative happen(ing) to his/her career" on this particular subject. Let's be clear what the subject is... we're not talking about bankruptcy, paycuts, furloughs, losing one's medical, or anything of the sort. I wouldn't wish that on anyone, nor will you find me posting anything along those lines. This thread doesn't even have anything to do with "Free Meals"....again, that's what per diem is for.... so the personal $$$ impact on the crew is nil. No, this thread has finally rendered itself down to it's real concern... scheduling, and has only done so because it will effect crew convenience in a negative way.

Well, welcome to the world the airlines (pilots included) managed to create....a Stressed-Out Standing In Long Lines When You're Not Dashing To The Other End Of The Airport Looking At Your Watch world. A world the paying customer has had to deal with pretty much every time they fly. Sorry, I'll save my pity for the elderly and infirm, families traveling with children, and those without watermelon-sized bladders, not for those who helped make it happen.

Those of us that aren't any of the above can at least experience a small amount of stress-relief that comes from these Parris Island-y, forced-runs though the Clusterf*ck-of-a-logistical Nightmare you quaintly call a "hub". I hate to break this to you guys, but the smiles you see from de-planing pax aren't ones of happy anticipation to see their loved ones, of satisfaction to be at their destinations, or even from the joy of experiencing one of the General's smooth landings. No, to explain the majority of those smiles you have to refer to Socrates's observation as they took the leg irons off his chafed, bleeding ankles; that sometimes Pleasure is merely the removal of Pain one has been enduring....in this case, their whole travel-by-airline experience from the time they entered the departure terminal to the time they exited it's counterpart where they arrived.

Please spare me any objections that "pilots have nothing to do with this...it's all the Other Guy's fault!" especially on this flight scheduling issue. Collectively through the Union, pilots apply pressure for the company to develop lines that maximize pay (i.e. block time) for a given duty day and time away from home. For some reason (perhaps as an outgrowth of living behind a closed cockpit door), pilots believe that the things they negotiate...without exception...are fenced-off from having any ramifications or negative effects on the larger company (and in turn, the customer). Now, this would make them different than any employee group working for any company in any industry anywhere on the planet.

But there I go again, forgetting that any airline is just a Jobs Program for pilots, and pax are merely just part of the scenery.

 

[CatYaaak]

When the 50 minute turn becomes only a 10 minute turn and Yaaak has a tight connection on the next leg ....... ahhhh, dang time to stand in line at Burger Hut.

Ask yourself why those lines exist at all? Do you think it has anything to do what kind of service the people will find once they board the aircraft?

You can afford to smile at those "Line People" though...they're the ones you AREN'T screwing-over when you cause the ones who actually ran and wheeled and tugged their kids in order to be where they were supposed to be when you were scheduled to depart.

Of course I'm just a passenger, not the pilot, so what would I know about it? I just don't realize that the intelligence and resourcefulness required to drive the bus is so friggin' taxing that it leaves nothing left-over to try and plan or figure out the how to feed oneself.

But save yourself the superhuman effort. I'll organize a food-drive in the cabin and have our pax food sent up in the hopes that raising the pilots' pretzel-level will stave off disaster until real food can be found. After all, none of us wants to end up at the bottom of a smokin' hole because our steely-eyed pros up in the pointy end have rumbly tummies.

 

[Mugs]

Looks like you get this weeks mountain out of a moehill award Yaaak. Amazing work you have done for the achievement. Of course, you missed the point entirely. Then again, I can't believe I am waisting time arguing with you about crew meals of all things.

If they take away crew meals to cut costs, who cares? If you eat them with the frequency that I do, you would know that they would not be missed. In my view they serve only to increase flexibility somewhat. The sooner we get to the airplane, the more likely it is to go out on time. I have found plenty of defects (or other issues) during pre-flights in which I was glad I was there sooner rather than later to report it and get it fixed or defered. If not having to run and grab something to eat saves ten minutes, that is ten minutes of additional time for us to be on board making sure everything is ready. As a passenger, which would you prefer? The crew on board an extra 10 minutes or the crew getting lunch somewhere else? It has nothing to do with some sense of "entitlemnent" or need to be "served" as you are tyring to make it out to be. If they take them away, so be it. We just occasionally loose 10 minutes of potential troubleshooting time or some ability to make up time when things are running late. Sorry if you think eating is an act of entitlement for an airline pilot. I'm sure you just go without.

 

[Mugs]

Please spare me any objections that "pilots have nothing to do with this...it's all the Other Guy's fault!" especially on this flight scheduling issue. Collectively through the Union, pilots apply pressure for the company to develop lines that maximize pay (i.e. block time) for a given duty day and time away from home. For some reason (perhaps as an outgrowth of living behind a closed cockpit door), pilots believe that the things they negotiate...without exception...are fenced-off from having any ramifications or negative effects on the larger company (and in turn, the customer). Now, this would make them different than any employee group working for any company in any industry anywhere on the planet.

But there I go again, forgetting that any airline is just a Jobs Program for pilots, and pax are merely just part of the scenery.

So the solution is to fly as little as possible on any given day? What management team doesn't want as much productivity as possible on any given day? SWA, for example, makes money in large part because of the superior utilization rates they get out of their aircraft and crews on a daily basis. The result? Productivity that allows for low costs and low fares --- which is what the consumer has made loud and clear is the thing they want the most. The airlines are now mass transit. Just like a bus or a train. If people want luxury, they can go see you for a charter at several thousand bucks per hour. Hopefully you won't include any lessons in economics.