Fractional growth for 2006

[netjetwife]

That's right, GF. All those sell offs that they had bought ahead of time . I was forgetting about those. Now I remember the posts from the pilots complaining that flights were sold off while they sat in FBOs. The contract got settled before the holiday rush, but the arrangements had already been made. They found out that they couldn't break the pilots' will so things didn't go according to their plan, did it?

I said last year that this business would earn money in 2005 – and I was dead wrong.


Sell offs, signing bonuses, yeah, it added up didn't it. I agree with your analysis, GF. They knew all along they'd be able to fix the problem, and with the right persuasion they finally admitted that it was wiser to work with the pilots than continue to fight them. With luck (and hard work by the pilots) , the management at Flt Ops will look at the NJ example and come to that same conclusion, sooner rather than later.

 

[Crossky]

Kid, you're gonna have to show me the data on that one...I know Captains at Regionals who have topped out, and miss the mark by (roughly) 20K from Frac pilots. Again, generalities - not proven details. This is why we'll drive metal for our whole life.

To be clear, my position is its factual that the average Regional CA and FO, year for year, gross less that their professional counterpart at the average fractional. I think we agree, my first post might have confused you.

 

[Sparse]

Nixon,

This is no surprise for 2005.

"...solve our revenue/expense problem."

DONE! All he had to do was settle the pilot's contract. As an examply I have already flown a many hours in the last 3 months since the contract was finished as I had for the 6 months prior. A 100% increase in pilot productivity. Flying 55 hrs last tour alone.

How many of those hours were occupied hours? The tour I just finished was 19.5 which 10.7 was occupied. 55%. In my view the key is to increase the occupied hours.

 

[gunfyter]

Almost all were occupied hours.... like 85% FO barely flew and many days did not fly.

 

[Semore Butts]

Why didn't F.O. fly?

Is there a new rule I'm missing?

 

[Diesel]

After 2 days and 15 plus hours we've had only 2 hrs of unocupied.

We both prefer to stay in our seats just swap every leg pax or not.

Gunfyter might have been flying with a newhire who's not allowed to fly pax legs.

 

[gunfyter]

Thats correct. Did not have 50 hrs just off IOE.

 

[piaggiop180]

where i work we just got a large pay increase i to worry about the long term viability of the company i work for. with unions putting more and more pressure on these companies it is only a matter of time before we are all out of work. no problem for the union they dont have to give back any of the money they received. with NJ reporting huge losses makes you wonder how long they will let it survive.

 

[gunfyter]

Don't worry 180.

Pilot salaries are a TINY part of the revenues and expenditures. Will have no effect at all on the viability of NJ.

Waste and Scheduling problems if corrected will guarantee profits.

 

[Number$Cruncher]

Stick to the front office, not the back office

Any of you who think that FLOPS, FLEX and Citation Shares are loosing money, prove it.

This comment is silly. That'd require inside information, and a violation of the securities laws. Convenient, perhaps, but true nonetheless. If you really want to learn firsthand how much your company is making (or not making), get a job in the finance department.

 

[Number$Cruncher]

Stick to the front office, not the back office

Don't worry 180.

Pilot salaries are a TINY part of the revenues and expenditures. Will have no effect at all on the viability of NJ.

Waste and Scheduling problems if corrected will guarantee profits.

Actually, pilot salaries are NO part of the revenues. Okay, okay - some of the costs are passed through in the form of the management fees, and those are adjusted (supposedly) to account for cost increases. Right.

But are they a TINY part of the "expenditures"? Let's do some sample math: 2,400 pilots (give or take) x $60K average salary (ballpark, including benefits) = $144MM. Even if the total revenue of the company is $1.5B, that's nearly 10%. Hardly tiny.

Waste IS a big problem, but correcting even the big drains won't necessarily lead to profits. Profits are when revenue > expense. There's operating profit, then there's net profit - which includes the cost of the money and assets you're using. That's the real hurdle.

 

[gunfyter]

Revenue is multiple of 1.5 B. probably like $5b

The Fuel bill alone is multiples of the pilot salaries. I am burning about $1milllion in fuel a year.

You don't know sh!t about numbers.

My Expense checks for hotels taxis airlines and perdiem is greater than my paycheck sometimes... and before the new CBA it always was greater.

Pilot salaries are a non-issue.

Just think what revenues would be if you did not pay pilots.... ZERO.

 

[netjetwife]

Pilot salaries are a non-issue.

Just think what revenues would be if you did not pay pilots.... ZERO.

Good one, Gunfyter! :laugh:

 

[Fozzy]

where i work we just got a large pay increase i to worry about the long term viability of the company i work for. with unions putting more and more pressure on these companies it is only a matter of time before we are all out of work. no problem for the union they dont have to give back any of the money they received. with NJ reporting huge losses makes you wonder how long they will let it survive.

Grow a pair will you!!! You are just happy to fly a plane. I bet you have a "Will fly for food" bumper sticker on your car.

 

[netjetwife]

I don't see it as a "matter of time". I see it as a matter of perspective. With more and more pilots demanding that companies pay up on all those outstanding IOUs, managers will actually have to start doing their jobs. They will have to cut waste, run efficient operations, and save the high cost of training by keeping the pilots they have already hired. Fractional pilots are wising up. Prudent managers will do the same when they realize they can no longer balance the budget on the backs of the pilots.

 

[realityman]

Ummmm......Just a quick question for those of you that seem convinced that a union's goal is to run a company into the ground and only worry about lining their own coffers: If a union runs a company into the ground, doesn't that pretty much guarantee that the union will make LESS money, since all the dues paying members will be out of work? Why would a union desire this? It's self-defeating. It would seem to me that unions would want to maximize their members salaries WITHOUT destroying the companies in order to keep the revenue stream coming.

I just don't understand why some of you think all the unions want to do is line their pockets and to hell with the company. You can call unions greedy and corrupt if you like (and in many cases I wouldn't argue), but I find it hard to believe they're all that stupid.

And Gunfyter has it dead on. My monthly expenses of being on the road will many times exceed my salary, and that doesn't factor in fuel, mx, deicing, catering, supplies, landing fees, etc........
Pilot salaries are a very small part of NJA's operating expenses, even with the new contract.

 

[Number$Cruncher]

Revenue is multiple of 1.5 B. probably like $5b

The Fuel bill alone is multiples of the pilot salaries. I am burning about $1milllion in fuel a year.

You don't know sh!t about numbers.

My Expense checks for hotels taxis airlines and perdiem is greater than my paycheck sometimes... and before the new CBA it always was greater.

Pilot salaries are a non-issue.

Just think what revenues would be if you did not pay pilots.... ZERO.

I don't know where you get your numbers. Revenue ain't $5B. That's a promise.

 

[wanttofly]

A little hint, every time the NJA sells a whole share of an aircraft they are making over a million dollars, and in some cases much much more. How many aircraft are we getting this year alone? That does not include the monthly fees or anything else. This union is dedicated to maximizing our salaries and at the same time helping to make this company profitable and a great place to work. The 1108 is only getting started, and by what they have done in a very short amount of time it is going to be fun to see where we are at in 5 years. As previously said, if we were to bankrupt the company what good would that do us in the future. I am planing on being here for about another 32 years, and most of the pilots that I fly with are also planning on this being a career. The money that is coming in and out of NJA is nuts, it is very hard to even comprehend. The amount of money this company could save by fixing scheduling alone would probably pay our salaries and then some. Like I said before, it is going to be fun to see this company move foward. It is going to take Management, the Union leadership, the pilots and every other worker at NJA to move foward and to make this one of the best jobs in aviation.

 

[netjetwife]

Good post, WTF! My husband is one of your fellow pilots that now considers NJ to be his long-term aviation career choice. He enjoys frac flying so did his part to make it a place he could afford to stay. There must be many other frac pilots that are in the position he was last year. I share your belief that 1108 will continue to grow. Success is its own recommendation.

1108 --CHANGING THE FRACTIONAL INDUSTRY, A COMPANY AT A TIME

 

[Hogprint]

Just to parrot a couple of points that have been made. I've flown with more than a few mainline 121 folks who have decided they are going to hang around NJA. It's just to unstable on the other side of the fence. I have flown with a handful that have moved on to greener pastures for them. None though after the release of the TA/contract. One JetBluer, has had some second thoughts now that the dust has settled over here.

This frac flying isn't going to disappear anytime soon. No matter what you think about business models and whether you agree with what style of model, the genie is out of the bottle. Muffy and Biff aren't going back to first class fly'n unless the trust fund gives out. There will be frax in one way shape or form for the duration of our careers.