Fractional growth for 2006

[Captainzero1]

Netjets wife, you sound like a conspiracy theorist. I am not buying it, money being hidden offshore. Based on your logic, NJ will announce a profit at the end of their fiscal year. I will be looking out for that. I don't want to see anyone lose their jobs but lets get real. There is only a finite amount of multimillionaires out there who will join the frac fleet and while it is growing it ain't showing a profit. Why is that. I heard that in the frac biz, you do not take delivery of an airplane until the shares are sold in order to be able to pay for the aircraft. If that is the case, it is a good rule to follow but still no profits. Granted, there will be a shakeout and only the strong will survive in the end and I guess my moneye would be on NJ to be left standing and then they will have price control. And if this business model is so wonderful, why hasn't wall street jumped on the bandwagon considering Warren Buffet is a major stakeholder as well as a shareholder. Wall street follows the oracle of omaha to hopefully cash in with him. On the frac business they aren't sold.

 

[netjetwife]

When one uses common sense a conspiracy theory isn't needed, Capt Z. NJ Inc. openly chose to put their profits into world-wide expansion rather than pay the pilots professional wages. Perhaps the new CBA will slow down the overseas growth rate. I don't know. That remains to be seen, but I can tell you that the NJ pilots weren't pleased to see NJ Scotland started up while the company was telling the pilots they couldn't afford to pay fair wages. Here's two questions for your list, Zero: During contract negotiations, why did the company resist all efforts to give the NJA pilots a full financial disclosure if they were such an unprofitable company? I take it you've never seen a shell game or heard of corporate greed?


Don't let the "doom and gloom" crowd shake your confidence, frac pilots. Your companies pay all the other necessary costs of doing business. Make them add your compensation to the list of requirements. Here are the questions that seem more relevant to me: Which one of us on this board actually thinks that management settles for far less than they believe they're worth? They aren't having a problem paying their own salaries, so why should the pilots be underpaid and overworked?

 

[BluDevAv8r]

And if this business model is so wonderful, why hasn't wall street jumped on the bandwagon considering Warren Buffet is a major stakeholder as well as a shareholder. Wall street follows the oracle of omaha to hopefully cash in with him. On the frac business they aren't sold.

I don't have a dog in this fight but isn't the reason that Wall Street isn't following WB on NJ because Berkshire Hathaway owns ALL of NJ as well as FSI, etc? The only way Wall Street can show confidence in NJ is to buy Berkshire, no?

-Neal

 

[SCT]

"When one uses common sense a conspiracy theory isn't needed, Capt Z. NJ Inc. openly chose to put their profits into world-wide expansion rather than pay the pilots professional wages. Perhaps the new CBA will slow down the overseas growth rate. I don't know. That remains to be seen, but I can tell you that the NJ pilots weren't pleased to see NJ Scotland started up while the company was telling the pilots they couldn't afford to pay fair wages. "...............NJW

Mamm, I realize you must of stayed at a Holiday Inn Select last night, but you must not know alot about the aviation industry. I can't talk for NJ or WB, but the fastest growing market in aviation is the European, Pacific Rim, and even the Baltic countries. Currently, the US market is anemic at best for US airlines and corporate aviation. My company (an aviation company) is investing heavily overseas, especially the Pacific rim market. In NJ's business plan, are you recommending they do not expand into this market? I think you have a very narrow view of the busness world. But we've discussed this in previous posts.

 

[Humphreybogart]

When one uses common sense a conspiracy theory isn't needed, Capt Z. NJ Inc. openly chose to put their profits into world-wide expansion rather than pay the pilots professional wages.

Make them add your compensation to the list of requirements. They aren't having a problem paying their own salaries, so why should the pilots be underpaid and overworked?

I have a question for you and others who may care to add...What is a fair pay for us fractional pilots? Us at Shares and NJ just received a very nice pay raise. Hopefully Options and Flex will be soon to follow. I am quite happy with my salary as a Captain flying a light jet around while having half of the year off. This is typical of NJW to still complain even after her husband received a nice raise. It sounds like a smack in the face to your beloved union that fought to get NJ the raise and to your hubby and his buddies that voted it in. Remember, our companies are NOT in business to give us a job, they are in business to make money. If the pay is that bad for us pilots in the fractional world, please enlighten where I can go and make more money only working half a year. Be grateful for what you have for once.

 

[Crossky]

I have a question for you and others who may care to add...What is a fair pay for us fractional pilots? Us at Shares and NJ just received a very nice pay raise. Hopefully Options and Flex will be soon to follow. I am quite happy with my salary as a Captain flying a light jet around while having half of the year off. This is typical of NJW to still complain even after her husband received a nice raise. It sounds like a smack in the face to your beloved union that fought to get NJ the raise and to your hubby and his buddies that voted it in. Remember, our companies are NOT in business to give us a job, they are in business to make money. If the pay is that bad for us pilots in the fractional world, please enlighten where I can go and make more money only working half a year. Be grateful for what you have for once.

""Here's looking at you Kid . . . ""

Good one, I totally agree. If you don't get what you're worth, you get what you can negotiate. Now, the Regionals are in a pretty poor position compared to the Frac's I must say (painfully obvious point). Granted regionals hire FO's at less experience but RJ CA's usually have as much experience as Fractional CA's and make 30K less annually.

Anyone flying for a fractional is in a good place right now. I hope you're able to keep up what you have. However, the ironic thing is most Frac's don't post a net profit yet you're won excellent gains in pay lately, and most regionals are still netting tens of millions a year in profits while their pilots are enduring concessions, whipsaws, and the like. I hate to use the phrase 'borrowed time' in regard to the Frac's but I do wish Fractional pilots the best for the future.

 

[BluDevAv8r]

""Here's looking at you Kid . . . ""

Good one, I totally agree. If you don't get what you're worth, you get what you can negotiate. Now, the Regionals are in a pretty poor position compared to the Frac's I must say (painfully obvious point). Granted regionals hire FO's at less experience but RJ CA's usually have as much experience as Fractional CA's and make 30K less annually.

Anyone flying for a fractional is in a good place right now. I hope you're able to keep up what you have. However, the ironic thing is most Frac's don't post a net profit yet you're won excellent gains in pay lately, and most regionals are still netting tens of millions a year in profits while their pilots are enduring concessions, whipsaws, and the like. I hate to use the phrase 'borrowed time' in regard to the Frac's but I do wish Fractional pilots the best for the future.

I see what you are trying to say but the comparison is apples to oranges really. Two entirely different business models based on different economic pressures and customers. A regional's customer is the mainline carrier (some of whom are in BK) and that mainline carrier has a finite amount of business that they are going to throw up in the air and see who jumps highest for it while the fractional's customer is a multitude of private individuals and corporations all of whom choose their fractional provider based on service, reliability as well as the all-important "cost."

This could make for an interesting discussion however.

-Neal

 

[Anis]

Are you people on drugs? The fractionals have lost money since their existence and you all all thinking everything is fine.quote]

And you are....?

 

[Anis]

Netjets wife, you sound like a conspiracy theorist. I am not buying it, money being hidden offshore. Based on your logic, NJ will announce a profit at the end of their fiscal year. I will be looking out for that. I don't want to see anyone lose their jobs but lets get real. There is only a finite amount of multimillionaires out there who will join the frac fleet and while it is growing it ain't showing a profit. Why is that. I heard that in the frac biz, you do not take delivery of an airplane until the shares are sold in order to be able to pay for the aircraft. If that is the case, it is a good rule to follow but still no profits. Granted, there will be a shakeout and only the strong will survive in the end and I guess my moneye would be on NJ to be left standing and then they will have price control. And if this business model is so wonderful, why hasn't wall street jumped on the bandwagon considering Warren Buffet is a major stakeholder as well as a shareholder. Wall street follows the oracle of omaha to hopefully cash in with him. On the frac business they aren't sold.

all generalities, no detail...

 

[Anis]

When one uses common sense a conspiracy theory isn't needed, Capt Z. NJ Inc. openly chose to put their profits into world-wide expansion rather than pay the pilots professional wages. Perhaps the new CBA will slow down the overseas growth rate. I don't know. That remains to be seen, but I can tell you that the NJ pilots weren't pleased to see NJ Scotland started up while the company was telling the pilots they couldn't afford to pay fair wages. Here's two questions for your list, Zero: During contract negotiations, why did the company resist all efforts to give the NJA pilots a full financial disclosure if they were such an unprofitable company? I take it you've never seen a shell game or heard of corporate greed?


Don't let the "doom and gloom" crowd shake your confidence, frac pilots. Your companies pay all the other necessary costs of doing business. Make them add your compensation to the list of requirements. Here are the questions that seem more relevant to me: Which one of us on this board actually thinks that management settles for far less than they believe they're worth? They aren't having a problem paying their own salaries, so why should the pilots be underpaid and overworked?

Ooooh, yeah...with all due respect...this isn't a thread about overpaid execs and underpaid pilots. Back on track, please...