Former Tranny bidding SW Captain prior to 2015?

[FlyinGuy]

Maybe exploit was not the right word, but I think you are smart enough to understand what I was saying....

If it is not in the language or possibly the official notes, it is not there. Best of luck no matter what happens.

 

[madjack]

I'm curious, the integrated 717 CPs may not have been able to hold their seats depending on their global seniority position and vacancy bids in/out of ATL or wherever the 717 was to be based...so what exactly is the "damages"? to that group of pilots?

 

[PCL_128]

2. You can't sue ALPA National with any success, because the National advisors present specifically suggested that it should have been sent to the pilot group for vote

No, they didn't. They refused to give any official guidance on that, because it wasn't their place. The reps practically begged for advice on which way to vote, but the attorneys and national officers can't give that sort of advice. They can only give analysis and options, not guidance.

3. Our local MEC doesn't have a ton of cash to begin with after the money spent on the SIA. Since you can't sue ALPA National successfully because of (2) above, you only have a small pot of money to go around if you somehow got a favorable ruling suing the local AAI ALPA.

As a legal matter, there is no such thing as the ATN MEC. It exists only within the ALPA structure, not as a real legal entity, so you can't sue the MEC even if you wanted to. You can only sue ALPA International, which is the only legal entity. Each MEC doesn't even have its own bank accounts. It's all just on paper.

4. Even if you successfully sue the individual MEC members

That can't really be done, either. All ALPA reps are indemnified, so even if you got a judge to take a case against an individual rep, ALPA is the one who handles the defense and is responsible for any judgment. It's impossible to get to an individual rep's money in a lawsuit.

For those reasons, the people suing ALPA are simply barking up a tree that's not going to bear any fruit. It may make them feel better, but the only people who win are the lawyers (as usual).

On that, I agree.

 

[PCL_128]

You guys are dealing with a shrinking side right now- why would you want to hold onto that?

I'm not exactly in a big hurry to commute and barely hold a line in most domiciles. Big difference from the QOL that I'm used to being based at home and being more than half way up the FO list.

 

[PCL_128]

PCL and Lear--you're union guys, right?

Lear has said that he's a contract compliance (grievance) guy. I've never claimed to hold any position.

 

[Cometman]

Lear has said that he's a contract compliance (grievance) guy. I've never claimed to hold any position.

It sounds like you know more than Lear. He runs his mouth and now you have to come back and correct him on everything. Thanks. Maybe somebody should tell Lear to stop talking like he knows what he is talking about. He mentioned case law but he still has not presented what case law he is talking about. He should remember that it is better for people to think he is a fool than to open his mouth and remove all doubt.

 

[GoodTimes]

Wow!

Mention a lawsuit against ALPA, and Lear and PCL sure are quick to point out that it's not a possibility.

You guys sure you didn't have anything to do with the first SLI agreement being turned down?

 

[Lear70]

No, they didn't. They refused to give any official guidance on that, because it wasn't their place. The reps practically begged for advice on which way to vote, but the attorneys and national officers can't give that sort of advice. They can only give analysis and options, not guidance.

That's not the information I got directly from an MEC member who was present, but I wasn't there and, quite honestly, I haven't read the minutes, just took that person at their word. If not they're still insulated because they followed the policy manual, just not as bulletproof as I thought, but if they refused to say anything one way or another, hard to draw any conclusions to add to a lawsuit...

As a legal matter, there is no such thing as the ATN MEC. It exists only within the ALPA structure, not as a real legal entity, so you can't sue the MEC even if you wanted to. You can only sue ALPA International, which is the only legal entity. Each MEC doesn't even have its own bank accounts. It's all just on paper.

I understand that, but aren't they still specifically-named on the suit currently pending?

That can't really be done, either. All ALPA reps are indemnified, so even if you got a judge to take a case against an individual rep, ALPA is the one who handles the defense and is responsible for any judgment. It's impossible to get to an individual rep's money in a lawsuit.

I understand that also, but there's also a max indemnification of $1 Million per person if memory serves, so technically they COULD sue named individuals (and have), but even if they got an award (which I doubt), ALPA is only on the hook for $1 Million each and, as you said, would handle their defense, whether with in-house attorneys or hiring outside counsel as necessary.

That said, the state of Georgia has a maximum "damages" limit of $500k per person, any "damage" award over this amount goes to the State, not the individual who is suing, so it's not like the people suing are going to get some huge windfall even if they win everything they want.

Found that out a few years ago, according to Georgia, "damages" are intended to punish the person/entity found to be at-fault, not to enrich the person suing. The state allegedly did that to cut down on the frivolous lawsuits but it sounds more like enriching the State to me, but I digress.

Still loving my ignore list by the way.

 

[Lear70]

Wow!

Mention a lawsuit against ALPA, and Lear and PCL sure are quick to point out that it's not a possibility.

Oh it's possible,,, you can sue for anything, but in this case it's pretty much pi$$ing up a rope.

You guys sure you didn't have anything to do with the first SLI agreement being turned down?

I think PCL and I were both pretty vocal that the 1st deal sucked. In retrospect, the deal just sucked less than this one did in terms of money, especially now that the 717's are going away.

Water under the bridge... everything's easy to see in hind-sight, will always say that GK should have issued his "threat" letter 2 days BEFORE the MEC meeting rather than the 2 days AFTER when it actually came out. Hard to make a good decision when you don't have all the facts.

 

[Britpilot]

Still loving my ignore list by the way.

You mean like this:


This message is hidden because Cometman is on your ignore list.

 

[Lear70]

You mean like this:


This message is hidden because Cometman is on your ignore list.

Yeah, that one...

Can't abide someone who lies for months about their identity in an attempt to create the "illusion" of neutrality, yet slings mud continuously without adding anything helpful to the discussion, then when found out, just continues to do it.

At least the other Southwest pilots who debate me own up to who they are, and I respect that. It's much easier to respect someone with differing viewpoints if they're honest and forthright about it, even if it gets heated from time to time. That's simply healthy debate, which is usually a good thing if it helps you understand the other person's viewpoint, even if you still don't necessarily agree.

We're all going to have to work together for many years to come; keeping it honest and respectful without lies, threats, disrespect, and intimidation will go a long way towards getting past this and all pulling in the same direction (eventually).

:beer:

 

[ASADFW7]

On flightinfo most of the debate is without respect for an actual person on the other end of the computer, because the nature of this board is sport, and blowing off steam. If you take it too seriously in the long wrong it bites you in the ass.

 

[Roomwithaview]

I'm glad this guy is suing. We needed a replacement since they struck a deal with the nekkid pilot.

:uzi: :crying:

 

[Cometman]

You mean like this:


This message is hidden because Cometman is on your ignore list.

Who are you trying to convince? Both you and Lear read every post on here no matter who writes it. You both need to see what people are saying about you because you are insecure. You can say we are on your ignore list but we all know you read everything.

 

[PCL_128]

I understand that also, but there's also a max indemnification of $1 Million per person if memory serves, so technically they COULD sue named individuals (and have), but even if they got an award (which I doubt), ALPA is only on the hook for $1 Million each and, as you said, would handle their defense, whether with in-house attorneys or hiring outside counsel as necessary.

The $1 million is just the default amount that everyone is automatically covered for just by being elected. Whenever some big case comes up that could get someone held liable for something more than that amount, the BOD ratifies a resolution to cover them for whatever the amount is. In practice, there is no limit. ALPA isn't going to allow a representative to be held personally liable for damages.

 

[PCL_128]

I understand that, but aren't they still specifically-named on the suit currently pending?

No, they're not named as defendants. They are named within the body of the complaint, but that's just narrative. The only named defendants are ALPA International and Captain Moak. I don't know why, but Haber always names the ALPA President when he files a suit, even though he knows by now that he's indemnified.

 

[Cometman]

No, they're not named as defendants. They are named within the body of the complaint, but that's just narrative. The only named defendants are ALPA International and Captain Moak. I don't know why, but Haber always names the ALPA President when he files a suit, even though he knows by now that he's indemnified.

Another case of Lear70 running his mouth when he doesn't know what he is talking about. PCL has to teach him everything. Maybe now he will stop preaching something he knows nothing about. Where is the case law you told everybody about? Ignoring me won't make it go away. We all know you read everything.

 

[Lear70]

The $1 million is just the default amount that everyone is automatically covered for just by being elected. Whenever some big case comes up that could get someone held liable for something more than that amount, the BOD ratifies a resolution to cover them for whatever the amount is. In practice, there is no limit. ALPA isn't going to allow a representative to be held personally liable for damages.

Ah, I didn't know that; it's not in the by-laws that they *WILL*, but it's not prohibited either, so guess there's no reason they can't. Good to know, thanks.

No, they're not named as defendants. They are named within the body of the complaint, but that's just narrative. The only named defendants are ALPA International and Captain Moak. I don't know why, but Haber always names the ALPA President when he files a suit, even though he knows by now that he's indemnified.

I read that part, but didn't realize that it was because the AAI ALPA MEC couldn't be named legally. Again, good information, thanks.

 

[Lear70]

Ahhh, the sound of silence.

This message is hidden because Cometman is on your ignore list.

 

[PCL_128]

Another case of Lear70 running his mouth when he doesn't know what he is talking about. PCL has to teach him everything. Maybe now he will stop preaching something he knows nothing about. Where is the case law you told everybody about? Ignoring me won't make it go away. We all know you read everything.

Just know this, Cometman: even if Lear makes the occasional mistake, he's still head and shoulders above your elementary-school level intellect. Now go back to mommy's basement. It's nap time.