Former Tranny bidding SW Captain prior to 2015?

[redflyer65]

I am absolutely shocked that we have SWA pilots on here telling us that we should have negotiated our transition based on something "possibly" happening. What a load s$&t! This gets more comical by the day as the culture gets more tainted.

I would never make that arguement.

I knew the 717 wasn't coming to SW around June 2011. They made the decision to NOT move the sims pretty abruptly. That's all I needed to hear. Your mileage my vary.

 

[humveedriver]

I would never make that arguement.

I knew the 717 wasn't coming to SW around June 2011. They made the decision to NOT move the sims pretty abruptly. That's all I needed to hear. Your mileage my vary.

The agreement was for the 717 to be ATL based. So keeping the sims in ATL makes sense. Along with the 717 instructors who had a deal with SWA. Keep moving costs down, plus I'm sure Alteon was going to give them a good deal too.

SWA has turned this into a shell game. Which is OK in NYC if it only cost you 20 bucks. But to play the shell game with people's seats, domiciles and seniority is pathetic.

 

[redflyer65]

It makes sense from that view point, they were getting sim bays ready one day and turned on a dime the next. I just remember thinking they would never see SW paint if they weren't going to consolidate the training in Dallas. Maybe I read too much into it, but I wasn't surprised at all with the Delta announcement. The rumor had been in full force for 6 months. So much so that the GO had to put out a memo saying they can't say anything. And they NEVER commment on rumors. Of course the rumors really started up after the SLI was signed, but I still wasn't surprised at all.

 

[FlyinGuy]

We accepted the deal with SWA because GK did not want it to go to arbitration. He went on about running AT seperately. We all know this. This is more than just deferring a few aircraft. It's about an agreement that he made with both pilot groups to avoid arbitration.

But you accepted the deal!!! The reasons or conversations are moot compared to what is written. I am not trying to be a jerk, but the language is what matters to lawyers and judges. SWA will exploit the language...that is what companies do/should do.

 

[GoodTimes]

Getting rid of the 717s was a business decision.

Your MEC screwed you guys with the first integration agreement.

That's where the lawsuit should be directed.

 

[PCL_128]

SWA will exploit the language...that is what companies do/should do.

But I thought everyone always says that SWA is so different? That the "golden rule" prevails (excuse me while I stifle a laugh)? "Exploiting" language is what our former EAL union-busting managers did.

 

[humveedriver]

But you accepted the deal!!! The reasons or conversations are moot compared to what is written. I am not trying to be a jerk, but the language is what matters to lawyers and judges. SWA will exploit the language...that is what companies do/should do.

That's all we are doing at this point. Tasking our legal department to see if there is any recourse. No different than the exploitation SWA has choosen.

 

[Lear70]

Getting rid of the 717s was a business decision.

Your MEC screwed you guys with the first integration agreement.

That's where the lawsuit should be directed.

It's already been filed, and it's a loser lawsuit.

1. The MEC members acted within the ALPA policy manuals (both local and National). They had every right to turn it down at the MEC level. Whether they should have or not is debatable after the fact, and we've beaten that horse to death, but legally-speaking, you can't win a lawsuit if the people acted within their legal rights in effect at the time.

2. You can't sue ALPA National with any success, because the National advisors present specifically suggested that it should have been sent to the pilot group for vote, but knew the MEC had the right not to do so. This is all part of the record, available to any ALPA member in good standing who wants the meeting minutes. Since ALPA National suggested that it go to vote and they followed ALPA policy, they pretty much are insulated from any lawsuit.

3. Our local MEC doesn't have a ton of cash to begin with after the money spent on the SIA. Since you can't sue ALPA National successfully because of (2) above, you only have a small pot of money to go around if you somehow got a favorable ruling suing the local AAI ALPA. If you have 100 people suing, each has probably already put $4-5k into legal fees and it only grows every day. At some point they will spend more than they will make.

4. Even if you successfully sue the individual MEC members (extremely difficult because of (1) above), even if you got an award for a large monetary amount, they'd simply file bankruptcy on it and move on with their lives and you'd never see a dime. I don't think any of them have any large pool of assets to seize above their protected property under bankruptcy law.

For those reasons, the people suing ALPA are simply barking up a tree that's not going to bear any fruit. It may make them feel better, but the only people who win are the lawyers (as usual).

 

[SWA717]

But I thought everyone always says that SWA is so different? That the "golden rule" prevails (excuse me while I stifle a laugh)? "Exploiting" language is what our former EAL union-busting managers did.

I guess if exploiting is what the Golden Rule consists of then I am naive.

 

[waveflyer]

A question: after Herb's sit down with you, if The 717 deal with delta was something already announced- would your pilot group have voted differently?

As for culture, PCL- you don't get it- it IS much better to get this group unified than to drag out a shrinking mostly AT pilot 717 domicile for over 10 more years.

You guys are dealing with a shrinking side right now- why would you want to hold onto that?

And on the money side- if you haven't seen the USAPA case, it's relevant here with the numbers you throw out Lear-
You might have a case, but until you get to 2022, you can't prove any legal "harm" has been done- bc you're extrapolating numbers well off in the future-
And IMO assume a lot with them- ie: what are line values as 717 leases expire? Senior FOs can often make as much as junior captains here- etc etc