Former Tranny bidding SW Captain prior to 2015?

[scoreboardII]

corporate arrogance tends to come back and bite with very ugly consequences.

It already is.

 

[madjack]

The problem with throwing more money at one subset of the seniority lists (former AAI pilots who "lost CP" seats as a result of 717 going away) is that it further divides the group...in addition SWAPA may have an issue with the company awarding extra moneys to a subset of AAI pilots without commensurate compensation for the SWA pilots.

Mgmt's call, but the potential negative reactoin on the SWA side to former AAI 717 CPs (now SWA FOs) being awarded damages for the 717 going away will certainly factor into the decision. Not my money, I don't care...

 

[redflyer65]

I know it's hard to admit that this might actually be something that was handled poorly but really, if you're an AirTran Captain who went to a road show, had a Southwest management representative tell you that you were keeping your Captain seat, the Agreement says you will keep your Captain seat, and that the planes are staying until 2017, then suddenly they're not and you lose between $250,000 and $500,000 (that's half a Million Dollars, by the way), before you can re-upgrade... you think that's not offensive?

Lear,

I can't quite follow the Half a Million Dollars line above.

Here are the numbers when I run them side by side (using two different line numbers with both Max payrates)....


AAI CA 75/hr = 12,825
SW FO 90/trp= 11,955

AAI CA 80/hr = 13,680
SW FO 100/trp = 13,284

I understand your arguement about being sold something like keeping the planes, and I can understand if someone might not want to move from the left seat to the right, but the pay looks pretty close to me...where is the huge loss in wages?

RF

 

[PCL_128]

Red, you're missing the part where they were going to be 717 captains on SWA wages starting in Jan 2015 until the leases expired, which for the most senior pilots, would have been until 2022 when the last airplane would have left.

 

[redflyer65]

That makes sense PCL. But even that doesn't add up to 300k, much less a Half a Million.

As Scoreboard elluded, management will work around any large payout. They will position themselves to get what they want, they usually do.

 

[PanPan]

I don't understand why so many rsw are rooting against fat guys. And I don't understand how on one hand some rsw guys can say "you're not SWA, and don't deserve what we have until you get the badge", but on the the other hand complain that we are not entitled to anything they don't get.

 

[redflyer65]

Not rooting against them. Just being realistic with how SW management negotiates.

Very similiar when many SW employees told the AAI MEC that management plays hardball. They tried to call Gary's bluff. The rest is a massive loss for every Airtran pilot. We've seen it before, they hadn't.

Think of it this way...SW negotiates everyday behind the scenes, for everything. From the peanut vendor all the way to the tire manufacturer and beyond. How many contracts are they negotiating in a month for around 100 thousand flights? The numbers are staggering. In no way am I telling the AAI guys what to do, but be aware, it's a tough road ahead.

 

[PCL_128]

That makes sense PCL. But even that doesn't add up to 300k, much less a Half a Million.

Sure it does. The difference between an FO and CA is easily $75k per year, far more for someone who really wants to work. Extrapolate that out for 3-7 years, depending on how senior someone is and could have held out on the 717 while the leases expired over a period of years, and someone could have easily racked up in excess of a half million in additional compensation over what they'll receive now.

 

[redflyer65]

Your off on your numbers and in the end, I don't think it will matter anyway. Be interesting to see how it plays out either way. Good luck.

 

[Lear70]

Our most junior 717 Captain who was going to keep his seat isn't senior enough on the combined list to hold it. He will not upgrade again for 8 years.

8 years at CA pay versus F/O pay at Southwest is easily $500k including the additional 401(k) match and profit sharing, between $60-75k per year are the numbers we have between guarantee and average lineholder swapping a little in ELITT and Daily HOT/POT, etc.

In the end, it certainly does matter to those pilots. They bid 717 CA expecting to remain Captains. To say that they shouldn't expect some recompense for that is disingenuous.

Let me put it this way: If the guy who is suing for AAI pilots to be able to bid 737 CA wins and suddenly all 373 AAI pilots who can hold 737 CA per the ISL come over as CA's, would your senior F/O's who are expecting to grab those CA seats not be just as angry and demanding something be done since the SIA was designed for those CA seats to come to senior SWA F/O's?

I bet your guys would be screaming bloody murder, and rightfully so. So why, when the shoe is on the other foot, and our pilots are having something taken away that they voted for and were told they would have, do your guys have such a beef with them getting anything to compensate for the change of deal?

In truth, there may be nothing that is done, SWA eats the additional training costs, and we keep trucking down the road, but I keep hoping that they try to engender a little good will versus what we have now where we just keep having the cheese moved on a monthly basis that is already taking real money out of our wallets (reduced flying = less pay) and will continue to moving forward (loss of CA's seats and CA pay at SWA for 717 pilots).

I know, I know... wish in one hand and...