Fork in the road

[Rythm3]

I have pretty much come to a fork in the road as far as my career goes, and I need some advice.

First of all, let me say that my goal is SWA.

I have been flying a King Air 90 single pilot 135 for the past 2 years. I have close to 500 PIC in it. I just got hired into a Westwind II, SIC to start, under Part 91, but should be typed within a year. (The company averages 20-30 hours a month). I AM still able to fly the King Air on my days off.

On the other hand, I have a few resumes out to the Regionals, one of which is CoEx (Express Jet), and passed the telephone interview. They said to expect a call in 60-90 days (which was about 3-4 weeks ago). This was all before I got the call to fly the Westwind.

I know that upgrade is going to be a while at CoEx. So should I stick with what I have, or should I pursue the 121 thing? Does it matter to Southwest?

Thanks in advance for any and all suggestions.

 

[FatesPawn]

I'll throw in my $.02

Go to Coex.

The 121 experience is another animal alltogether. I've flown at a regional, major, charter, and fractional. They are all VERY different.

Coex will give you the chance to see what 121 life is like PLUS you will build time MUCH faster. As for the PIC time, that IS a problem. The "bird in your hand" offers 25ish hours per month... is that all going to be PIC when (and if) you get typed? That will still take you 20 months to get the extra 500 hrs required at SWA - if you fly 25 hrs/month and it's ALL PIC.

Coex is GROWING and I think will offer you a stable environment over the next couple of years while you build your time. The $$ probably isn't as good as your current opportunities, but you'll have a fun time and the PIC ~will~ come.

The regionals was the best decision I ever made. I logged just under a ton of time (averaging 950/year) and it really helped me when I got FURLOUGHED... another story and hence my experinece in 135 and fractionals.

Good luck!

 

[wil]

I know I will get flamed but, if you want to fly 121 get the experience. I flew freight in SD3-60'S that I thought would sure lead to the majors cause they flew at the Regional years earlier. Well, maybe one or two go the call (strong internal letters) but the prevailing wisdom (circa 2000) was to go to the Regionals. Very few will go from 135 to major 121. Those that do have buku hours and letters. Given the current climate I would go 121 and upgrade. Hedge your bets on the conservative approach. If it does not work out you can still have a good career at Coex. And, given the state of the industry, it very well be your last carrier. Good luck-Wil

ps- Fly the 90 as long as you can till your class date!!

 

[StopNTSing]

Do not do ANYTHING else to upset the PIC gravy train you were on, until 1000 PIC-turbine is in the logbook!!!!

Forget about 121/135/91/prop/jet/RJ/737, blah-blah-blah.... It's all MEANINGLESS if you can't even apply to SWA...which of course you can not do until the 1000 PIC-turbine is in the logbook. And King Air PIC time fills that square just as well as Jungle Jet time. SWA always has and will continue to seek applicants from military, corporate, freight, and 121/135 backgrounds. The two most prized attributes they seek are leadership experience (read: Pilot in Command) and a great attitude.

So no, do not go to COEX at this time (unless upgrades are <1 year, though I believe those days are long gone). Fly the King Air every chance you get, and lean on the Chief Pilot to get you typed in that Westwind ASAP! Once the 1000 PIC-turbine is in the logbook (have I made myself clear just how important this step is?), then and only then should you consider a 121 operation or some other gig that may pay better or use bigger/nicer equipment, but will have you back in the right seat for an extended period.

Good luck!


P.S. Also start saving up now for that 73-type, so that you can get it done just as you are logging that 1000th hour of PIC-turbine time.


P.P.S Yes, this place is worth it!

 

[350DRIVER]

Go 121, after 3+ years of the 135 stuff I was very happy to move on.. A better and more "exciting" world.


3 5 0

 

[English]

StopNTsing is right on...if your goal is SWA, when you know what the minimum requirements are, why would you consider leaving a PIC turbine position when you have only halfway reached your goal?

Stay in the King Air until you get the 1000PIC turbine. Then you can skip the regionals and go right to SWA. IMHO, a regional at this stage is a huge step backwards.

The 121 regional thing is highly overrated.

 

[luv2fly]

Stay put

Mr. NTSing
You are correct, right on, hit the nail on head and so on. Rythm3 stay where you are at least until you get the magic 1000 hours. That is the key. Browse a few of the threads here and you will find a few threads that mention guys with 15000 hours 121, but only 950 PIC turbine or something like this and guess what, yup they can't apply to SWA without the 1000. So please, If you really want SWA, bite the bullet and stay with the Westwind/King Air scenerio it will pay off big time!! I know COEX really seams great, and It probably is, but if you want SWA take the path that will get you qualified the quickest, then re-evaluate after your application is in the mix.

By the way I am in the SWA Pool and I am comimg from 135!
Go Ameriflight!!

 

[enigma]

Here's another vote for getting the PIC asap. As StopNTSing said, turbine PIC is KING at SWA, you can't even apply without being able to check that box. Get the PIC, make sure that it is unquestionably PIC, and then go fly an RJ if you really desire. If you really think that you need scheduled service experience, go for it AFTER you log the 1000 hours PIC.

good luck,
enigma

 

[FearlessFreep]

I would stick with the current operation that you are engaged in now. It has a good deal written all over it. While still getting the opportunity to get the much desired 1000 PIC turbine, you are also getting the opportunity to get jet time as well. You don't know that you might be able to upgrade in the Westwind in short order. Additionally by staying where you are at you may possibly be getting inroads into the corporate aviation environment, something that should not be dismissed too quickly. If you can find a good corporate operator, that treats their personnel with some modicum of respect you might find happiness that may meet or exceed what could be found at WN. In any other case staying where your at will still get you closer to your goal of getting that vaunted pilot job at WN. WN does hire people with only 135 experience, or even straight corporate part 91 experience. I have met people in both cases.

Have Fun & Good Luck!

 

[BoilerUP]

PIC!

Might as well throw my two cents in as well.

If I were you, I'd stay flying the C90 and the Westwind. I'd talk my way into a type rating as quickly as possible, and fly both as much as I possibly could. I would apply to SWA as soon as I hit 1000 PIC, but keep flying the C90 and Westwind. I would get the 737 type shortly before or after getting the 1000 PIC, and hope for the best.

It is likely that you would take a large pay cut to fly for a regional. If you feel that you need 121 time, apply at the same time you send out your SWA application. Air Wisky, Comair, Skywest, and (soon) XJT would be your best paying options. Or, if you can afford it, apply to Mesa and slave as an FO a couple years before upgrading (getting that 121 PIC places like AirTran wants), all the while updating your resume with SWA. With 1000 turbine PIC and 4000+ hours, I would imagine you would be competitive nearly anywhere you might apply.

However, I'm not you, and I don't know your full situation. I wish you the best of luck in whatever path you decide to take. Fly safe and have fun!

 

[Rythm3]

Thanks to everyone for your input.

 

[Ty Webb]

Here's another vote for getting that 1000 PIC ASAP before doing anything.

Also, you don' say anything about your family situation, what kind of pay/job you have right now . . . but do you have any idea how crappy the first year or two at COEX will be?

I remember attending the "cattle call" for COEX back in 1999. Didn't get an offer from them, but got a very good corporate/135 jet job offer instead (I had 2100tt at the time).

One year later, I was overnighting at the Hilton across from the COEX ramp at IAH. I opened the window while I ate my room service breakfast, and watched those guys tramping around in the rain, and thought to myself . . . geez, that could be me, busting my butt for half of the pay, out there in the rain, instead of sitting here with a jet type rating in my pocket, free steak and eggs from room service, and getting ready to go fly the jet home to Florida . . . . . .

Be careful what you wish for! I stayed corporate until I got a job I could live with and skipped the regional thing altogether.

 

[IAHERJ]

Ty,

I guess you skipped the regional thing altogether however those guys "running around in the rain" were on their way to their scheduled overnight that (at COEX) were normally in nice hotels and 12 hours or longer. Try 33 hour layovers in 9 of the 15 Mexican destinations COEX serves or maybe a 20 hour layover in Halifax, one of 5 cities in Canada COEX serves. That wasn't a bad airline to work for at all.

Had you "skipped the regional thing altogether" with AirTran's minimums of today, you would still be sitting in a hotel (or a dumpy pilot's lounge) somewhere watching those green tails pass by.

IAHERJ

 

[Ty Webb]

I stand by my post. I had a family, and those Mexican overnights don't pay the bills.

I think you're barking up the wrong tree carrying on about COEX layovers to a former corporate pilot! Let's just say that most corporate pilots get a few ski trips and carribean trips in each season, with a company credit card to pay for everything. . . . except lift tickets. I'll spare you the ALsakan fishing trips and some of the other things we got to do.

Anyway, back to the point, which was whether this guy should scrap a decent turbine PIC gig to go sit in the right seat at COEX for a handful of magic beans and some Ramen noodles . . . my answer is no.

PS, I was hired here after 9/11, and I don't think you can use the current requirements at AAI as a yardstick. With 1000 turbine PIC, he would qualify at JBLU, SWA, ATA, AWA and other places. To each their own, but I would stay corporate until this whole mess turns around.

Oh, when I got to AAI, I had enough hotel points saved up to get through all of the ATL-based training (4 weeks).

 

[IAHERJ]

And I stand by my post. If you think he should stay corporate just state that. Bashing an airline you abviously know little about does him or anyone else any good. By the way, I flew corporate for a while as well and skiied Telluride several times a year along with the other stuff corporate pilots get to do on someone elses dime and schedule. My personal opinion on these two very different methods of getting to a major airline are not important to the topic of the thread therefore I won't go down that road any farther than I have in the paragraph above. After reading your post more closely I apologise as I wasn't aware you were turned down by COEX before I posted initially.

Rythem 3,

I wish you the best in your quest for SWA. They are a great airline and I believe will continue to be one of if not the strongest airlines in this country. Get the PIC time the quickest way you can as anyone on here will tell, this industry is a career of peaks and valleys. You want to always have your ducks in a row for the next peak.

IAHERJ

 

[Swerpipe]

sounds very familiar

I had the same decision to make a couple of years ago. I chose the PIC timeand I am still getting it. To add to what STOPNTSing advised you, I asked a SWA chief pilot after getting my SWA time minimums if I should go with a Regional or take an offer to fly a Hawker as a Captain and the chief pilot advised me to definitely take the Hawker job. He said SWA values PIC jet time way above having the 121 experience. Good luck to you...

 

[Ty Webb]

I think this thread just goes to show that there is no true path. We all make the best choices we can based upon the info we have availaible. A lot of it is just luck and timing.

Good luck to all . . . . .We all do the best we can and hope it works out for the best for all of us.

IAHERJ, I am not knocking it, so much as I am trying to say that there is definitely another way. I wouldn't change mine, sounds like you wouldn't change yours, either.

There is no shame in being turned down by COEX; at my interview, the "worldly" 26 year-old EMB-120 skipper was more concerned with the issue of why I didn't apply when they were PFT than what experience/qualifications I had to bring to COEX on that day in 1999. May have been just a fluke, but left me with a negative impression of COEX that may never change.

Not trying to slam COEX, just show a side of it that our erstwhile King Air skipper may have not contemplated yet.

 

[General Lee]

Ty,

So, you got turned down by COEX and MIDEX? Third time is a charm I guess.... You are a lucky man now.....

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[WhiteCloud]

There is no shame in being turned down by COEX; at my interview, the "worldly" 26 year-old EMB-120 skipper was more concerned with the issue of why I didn't apply when they were PFT than what experience/qualifications I had to bring to COEX on that day in 1999. May have been just a fluke, but left me with a negative impression of COEX that may never change.

I was asked that once. My answer (that worked) was that I considered PFT a bribe to hire me over the next guy and that wasn't the kind of relationship I wanted to have with an employer. At least at that panel they were looking for a straight answer. Who knows what another panel might have thought?

 

[Ty Webb]

Ty,

So, you got turned down by COEX and MIDEX? Third time is a charm I guess.... You are a lucky man now.....

Bye Bye--General Lee

I guess technically I did get turned down by Midex, but none of the guys in my interview group got an offer. I don't think they ever had another newhire class after us . . . I sure don't take it personally.

Yeah, you bet I feel lucky. Funny thing about that story is that I caught a ride on AirTran to get to a Midex city (for the Midex interview), and the AirTran guys convinced me to update my stuff with AirTran . . . . which I did when I got home from the Midex interview.