Ford may sell jets

[Raskal]

They don't subsidize diesel?

Diesel engines are about 30 percent more efficient than their gasoline counterparts, but emit more small particles responsible for smog. They benefit from environmental tax breaks in some countries, including subsidies for biodiesel -- a fuel made from oil crops such as the bright yellow rapeseed that dots much of northern Europe.

Yes, biodiesel is subsidized in some areas, just like ethanol is here. Political games are everywhere.

 

[jj21211]

Well, soon GM will announce a big change in their flight dept. Sickening. How many 'luxury jet' rides have Pelosi/Reid etc. been on? Hypocritical A-Hoes!At GM, they fly Gulfstreams, made in America, employing hundreds of highly skilled workers. Then there are the flight crews, ground support, dispatchers, etc. Then, they purchase fuel and services all over the world, and pay huge taxes and fees in the US. I mean, the ripple effect is considerable. What is dissapointing is, the US carmakers have had 20 years to fix the quality issue, and, yes, they've come a long way, but they're not exactly closing the gap by that much...

 

[atpcliff]

Hi!

For all practical purposes, GM/Ford HAVE closed the Quality gap. But, it doesn't matter if they're made well, if they're not the type of cars Americans want, they won't compete well in America.

Tucker was RIGHT!

They should have hired him as a consultant, instead of taking him to court.

cliff
YIP

PS-I even saw as recently as a year ago, the CEO of Toyota was finding out from Americans what type of vehicles Americans wanted, while the Wagoner at GM didn't need to find out what Americans wanted, because GM know more than the American people about vehicles.

 

[BoilerUP]

For all practical purposes, GM/Ford HAVE closed the Quality gap. But, it doesn't matter if they're made well, if they're not the type of cars Americans want, they won't compete well in America.

Folks keep saying this...what kind of cars exactly do "Americans" want?

Up until the start of 2008, it was the SUV...and people were buying Tahoes, Explorers, and pickup trucks in droves. Enter a spike in oil/fuel prices and all of the sudden "The Big 3 are and have been out of touch with American car buyers!"

GM is now developing the Volt and rushing it to market, and while I don't know the current status of it, GM had been planning a MASSIVE nationwide hydrogen fuel cell vehicle test which would have dwarfed Honda's small hydrogen Civic test in California.

Styling is always subjective, but the new Malibu looks better IMO than the new Camry does...and the newer Accord sedans have been god-awful looking since the last redesign.

I understand the "sins" of the 90s and early 2000s when the Big 3 ignored their cars to focus on their more profitable trucks...but the current issues aren't due to their crop of vehicles TODAY, its due to what they offered 3/5/8/10 years ago.

 

[Rick James]

Diesel is cheaper to refine, it's the same here but our refineries are set up for around 15% diesel creating less supply.

Diesel is also considerably more efficient burning at a lower compression with more energy released per burn than gasoline.

Diesel is no longer cheaper to refine with the requirement for ultra low sulfur diesel (ULSD)

Also, diesel cumbusts at about double the compression of gasoline powered vehicles as there are no spark plugs.

 

[metrodriver]

I don't call $7.00 a gallon subsidized, gasoline is about $8.00 a gallon. The largest part of the fuel price in Europe are taxes.
People in England are furious because the cost of oil has more than halved, however the price at the pump has only dropped 20% (all because the taxes are so high).

You know why ethanol in the US is so expensive? It's all being exported to Europe.

GM (and I guess the other big 2 too) had a design philosophy that a car had to last 10 years or 100k miles, and then things had to fall apart. And so the alternator failed at 50k, powersteering at 65, plastic trim parts broke easily, at 9 years the dashboard cracked, after 11 years the ceiling fell down. What failed too early would be improved, what was too good would be degraded. This I've heard from someone who was actually involved in that process. Your neighbor with the 15 year old 180k Honda changes the oil and never anything breaks. A little spit and polish and it would look like new. So what would be your next car?
To satisfy the demand for small cars they would import cheap junk from Korea. Ford Aspire (aka asswipe), rebranded Kia's, Geo: (Metro=Suzuki Swift, Prizm = Toyota Corolla; were actually the better ones), the other models came from Isuzu. Their own designs were not good either: Dodge Neon, Stratus, the smaller Caddi (forgot the name). Nothing that would last, nothing that had any kind of decent road behavior. GM took a German product, changed a lot: different engines, plastic body panels, cheap interior and called it a Saturn. The best Ford Taurus was the SHO: power (Yamaha engine) and a good transmission. The standard's version automatic had a high failure rate.
Another design mistake: the original Ford Rollover (Explorer). Ford never admitted it. However, after being hit with law suits (that Ford blamed on tires) they very suddenly came with a re-design that had a completely different (independent) suspension. POOR design, nothing else.

GM and Ford might have nice vehicles now. I agree. But, how do they hold up? If I buy one 8 years from now with 120k will it give me another 7 yrs/100k, or will autozone / junkyard be visited as frequently as the grocery store?
When these cars are still in the rental fleet (usually untill 2 years/ 20k) you can see the first signs: plastic parts broken, little electrical problems, trim that's letting loose. The last Malibu I drove a year ago had only 4k on it. Nice car, no complaints.

If you look back 15 years, which cars have been fighting for best title of best selling cars? The Japanese brands and the Ford Taurus (which later in it's life started to have issues and lost out quickly). If the Japanese can sell so many cars in that market, why is there no Big 3 product that can compete with it? Same lasting quality, same ride characteritics and economy and there would be a very profitable product. Bigger cars? Please don't compare a Crown Victoria to a Lexus, Acura, BMW or M Benz.

Again poor leadership at the Big 3, let them walk to work, ride a commercial airliner (in coach!) and ask the folks next to them what they think about their products.

 

[ASA_DFW]

CNN just reported that Ford will sell 5 of its corporate jets. Is that the entire fleet?

 

[G4G5]

http://money.cnn.com/2008/12/02/news/companies/automakers_plans/index.htm

 

[Regul8r]

Anyone else hear that Ford and GM liquidated their flight departments today? I ever see a congressmen stepping off a corporate jet, I'm going to punch the fat f--k right in the nose!

 

[siucavflight]

Anyone else hear that Ford and GM liquidated their flight departments today? I ever see a congressmen stepping off a corporate jet, I'm going to punch the fat f--k right in the nose!

What a congressmen does with his own money is irrelevant to this situation.
When a corporation comes and asks for billions of dollars in our money, how they spend it becomes our concern.
Two very different situations.