Forbes notable absence - Flight Options

[Rubber Ducky]

Anyone else notice that the October 11 issue of Forbes, THE 400 issue, contains an entire section on business jets and fractionals but omits Flight Options? Contains details on NetJets, CitationAir, Avantair, and Flexjet. Has Flight Options shrunk below all of those in fleet size? If it was paid advertising, it was a poor decision to opt out.

 

[johnsonrod]

Anyone else notice that the October 11 issue of Forbes, THE 400 issue, contains an entire section on business jets and fractionals but omits Flight Options? Contains details on NetJets, CitationAir, Avantair, and Flexjet. Has Flight Options shrunk below all of those in fleet size? If it was paid advertising, it was a poor decision to opt out.

You'd think they would be touting their new Phenom 300 fleet. I think the CEO of FLOPS stated the Phenom 300 would be a "game changer" in the fractional world. I haven't seen much advertising on it yet...

 

[shanes123]

Phenoms are cancelled..Seems Ricci has other plans..Wouldnt doubt if you see Flops closing in a few months and new non union companies emerging

 

[T-1GUY]

Are you serious ? What is your source ?

 

[jetwash]

Are you serious ? What is your source ?

NO is the simple answer.

Flight Options is starting to acquire and start smaller franchises that will use Flight Options to manage and crew the aircraft in their fleet. It was mentioned a few times by FLOPS management.


( from the Sojourn web site)


Embraer Phenom 300
We also have an exclusive arrangement to sell the new Embraer Phenom 300, which is the most economical super-light jet in the world. This whole aircraft comes bundled with management services from Flight Options that can include charter management, insurance, fuel and training. But best of all, our fleet buying power allows us to get these services for you at well below market rate.

 

[gutshotdraw]

Is this the fractional equivalent of outsourcing?

 

[993_Pilot]

Sounds to me like a union busting effort.

 

[shanes123]

Exactly

 

[glasspilot]

You guys did get scope in that CBA, right?

 

[gunfyter]

He said whole aircraft. Might make a difference regarding scope.

 

[fracjack]

There is no relationship between flight options and sojourn or nextant other than Ricci has his fingers in them all. Flops is totally separate but the fact Ricci is involved means he will take advantage of flops to feed the others and scope will not have an effect. Some lame azz excuse about poor interiors on Phenoms to cancel deliveries only to sell those delivery positions to Sojourn is the reality of the situation which could conceivably poise Sojourn to start a fractional with the gamechanging aircraft and the midsize embraer aircraft in the future. Oh...lets not forget the nextant BJ to join that venture. Suddenly some key flight operations personel quit options and contracts with the few fractional owners left expire will leave no need for Flops. Doors close and workforce available with assets at bargain prices. But I would not expect the hardcore 1108 supporters would consider working for Ricci now would they?

 

[shanes123]

There is no relationship between flight options and sojourn or nextant other than Ricci has his fingers in them all. Flops is totally separate but the fact Ricci is involved means he will take advantage of flops to feed the others and scope will not have an effect. Some lame azz excuse about poor interiors on Phenoms to cancel deliveries only to sell those delivery positions to Sojourn is the reality of the situation which could conceivably poise Sojourn to start a fractional with the gamechanging aircraft and the midsize embraer aircraft in the future. Oh...lets not forget the nextant BJ to join that venture. Suddenly some key flight operations personel quit options and contracts with the few fractional owners left expire will leave no need for Flops. Doors close and workforce available with assets at bargain prices. But I would not expect the hardcore 1108 supporters would consider working for Ricci now would they?

All nextant employess are on Flops payroll..And probably Sojourns also

 

[jetwash]

. Some lame azz excuse about poor interiors on Phenoms to cancel deliveries only to sell those delivery positions

I have to disagree with you on that part. Having gotten a look at the interior of the Phenom 300 that was delivered, I am glad that FLOPS delayed the delivery of the aircraft until the interior was corrected. I personally thought it looked like they were the same seats that are in the regional jets and are as comfortable as the RJ seats.

 

[shanes123]

I have to disagree with you on that part. Having gotten a look at the interior of the Phenom 300 that was delivered, I am glad that FLOPS delayed the delivery of the aircraft until the interior was corrected. I personally thought it looked like they were the same seats that are in the regional jets and are as comfortable as the RJ seats.

Someones been drinking the Koolaide again

 

[Praetorian]

Some lame azz excuse about poor interiors on Phenoms to cancel deliveries only to sell those delivery positions to Sojourn is the reality of the situation which could conceivably poise Sojourn to start a fractional with the gamechanging aircraft and the midsize embraer aircraft in the future.

Nice conspiracy theory freeloader. Except you forgot one thing.

From section one, "Scope and Recognition" of our contract:

1.4 Parallel Operations
1.4(a) The Company shall not establish a new air carrier to do fractional, JetPASS card holder or other flying of the type covered by this Agreement, unless such flying operations are flown by Pilots on the Flight Options Pilot Seniority List in accordance with this Agreement.

The union hired the best scope attorney in the business to negotiate our scope article, which is just one of the contractual protections you currently enjoy, which you got for free.

Not that I particularly care about your motivation, but it seems to me that you are trying desperately to rationalize your freeloading behavior.

 

[Praetorian]

Is this the fractional equivalent of outsourcing?

No its a managed aircraft company. Think EJM

 

[Praetorian]

Phenoms are cancelled..Seems Ricci has other plans..Wouldnt doubt if you see Flops closing in a few months and new non union companies emerging

Hi there Skipper. What's the problem, no one would respond to you on the IBT message board (because they think you are a scary chicken little) so you brought your apocalyptic rantings over here?

Look man, I know it sucks to be furloughed and have all that time on your hands, but do us all a favor and go back on your meds. I mean, its really getting embarrassing for you. I'd hate to see what was an honorable life's work reduced to this. Think about how you're going to face the rest of us when you come back.

 

[shanes123]

Hi there Skipper. What's the problem, no one would respond to you on the IBT message board (because they think you are a scary chicken little) so you brought your apocalyptic rantings over here?

Look man, I know it sucks to be furloughed and have all that time on your hands, but do us all a favor and go back on your meds. I mean, its really getting embarrassing for you. I'd hate to see what was an honorable life's work reduced to this. Think about how you're going to face the rest of us when you come back.

there will be no callbacks..I actually heard more furloughs coming soon..

 

[jetwash]

Someones been drinking the Koolaide again

I suppose you think the interior of the Phenom 300 is acceptable?
If so you probably haven't seen it.

You know, I can support the pilot group and 1108 at the same time and agree with a company decision on aircraft interiors.

 

[fracjack]

Prae tell

Gawd, you demonstrate such ignorance, Sojourn is not a Flops company and Flops didn't create it. Get that simple idea braniac? Now lets publish that list of freeloaders and so called unified MIGS doing overtime,runnin broke airplanes and the ones who broke them.
I'd get an umbrella for your parade that gets pissed on.

 

[Praetorian]

Gawd, you demonstrate such ignorance, Sojourn is not a Flops company and Flops didn't create it. Get that simple idea braniac? Now lets publish that list of freeloaders and so called unified MIGS doing overtime,runnin broke airplanes and the ones who broke them.
I'd get an umbrella for your parade that gets pissed on.

You can't make an argument so you take a poke at my inteligance? What does my intelligence have to do with what's contained in our scope article?

What's important, as far as scope is concerned, is who owns a controlling interest in Sojourn. Check the definitions section of our scope clause and you will find definitions for "affiliate", "parent", "control" and "entity". When the contract talks about "the company" what it's really talking about is the "entity" that has a controlling interest in flight options. The prohibition against parallel operations extends to that person.

You know, it takes money to hire attorneys to craft the language that provides for the protections we have in our contract. You can say all you want about which pilot is doing what out on the line. But no one (union or management) respects empty words. Guys like you, who are getting it all for free, send a very powerful and harmful message to management. They know every time they look at you that you are someone the rest of us can't count on when the heat is on. They know you will likely cross the line.

The only thing that remains in question is how long our pilot group will put up with this.

 

[fracjack]

You can't make an argument so you take a poke at my inteligance? What does my intelligence have to do with what's contained in our scope article?

What's important, as far as scope is concerned, is who owns a controlling interest in Sojourn. Check the definitions section of our scope clause and you will find definitions for "affiliate", "parent", "control" and "entity". When the contract talks about "the company" what it's really talking about is the "entity" that has a controlling interest in flight options. The prohibition against parallel operations extends to that person.

You know, it takes money to hire attorneys to craft the language that provides for the protections we have in our contract. You can say all you want about which pilot is doing what out on the line. But no one (union or management) respects empty words. Guys like you, who are getting it all for free, send a very powerful and harmful message to management. They know every time they look at you that you are someone the rest of us can't count on when the heat is on. They know you will likely cross the line.

The only thing that remains in question is how long our pilot group will put up with this.

No one insulted your intelligence(you may want to lookup ignorance and braniac in websters). Affiliate,control,entity has not been proven. I personally get nothing from flight options union for free. I feel sad for my friends at FLOPS. Time will tell and anyone from the outside can see the reality.

 

[Ludicrous Speed]

"I mean, its really getting embarrassing for you." Well put, but understated.

Look, Ricci's had his fingers in God knows how many pies since FlOps was started. With regard to this recent revelation, our contract hasn't even been threatened, let alone breached and some of you are already preparing to close up shop and rollover your 401k into Vaseline futures.

I've already written that I'm in favor of publishing freeloader lists. But whether those lists are ever posted, I'm still gonna remember who stood strong and who ran for the hills at the mere mention of trouble.

 

[fracjack]

"I mean, its really getting embarrassing for you." Well put, but understated.

Look, Ricci's had his fingers in God knows how many pies since FlOps was started. With regard to this recent revelation, our contract hasn't even been threatened, let alone breached and some of you are already preparing to close up shop and rollover your 401k into Vaseline futures.

I've already written that I'm in favor of publishing freeloader lists. But whether those lists are ever posted, I'm still gonna remember who stood strong and who ran for the hills at the mere mention of trouble.

Stood strong??? WTF? You people didnt have the balls to vote no on the CBA because you caved in while watching flops self destruct. You now just hope you can save ur own azzes that are left and take what little was given. Cheese eating rats.

 

[993_Pilot]

Stood strong??? WTF? You people didnt have the balls to vote no on the CBA because you caved in while watching flops self destruct. You now just hope you can save ur own azzes that are left and take what little was given. Cheese eating rats.

Hell must have frozen over, because as much as I hate to admit it, I actually agree with fracjack here.