For those who defended the pilot of the Carlsbad C560 Crash.........

[LRvsH25B]

QueerVs.152B-

You weren't in the aircraft, neither was I. Not defending the decisions that were made that day, but they paid for them. After you have died of old age after a long successful career, you might have some insight on who is a cowboy or who isn't. Have some respect for the dead, and do your best not to be the next one that is being discussed on this board. I don't know who will stand up for you if you become a smoking hole, especially after the comments you have made. There isn't one of us who can't be snatched up by misfortune, cowboy or not.

My condolences still go out to the families and friends of those who were lost in this and every unfortunate accident that we have been unable to prevent.

Respect for the dead? It's not like the wing fell off in cruise and killed these folks. This pilot killed these folk by getting into a situation that he could have easily prevented. I don't need anyone to stand up for me; if I did something like this, I deserved the out come because I knew better and was intentionaly doing things I knew would get myself killed and possibly innocent people as well. This was not misfortune for the pilot, it was inevitibality. Don't kid yourself. This is one great example of a pilot who had it coming, the passengers did not, not did they deserve the outcome they got. Here are people paying good money for a professional to transport them safely in their aircraft and they got nothing close to that. They got some guy who thought he could do it all, and look at him now. Self induced circumstances exceed skill, and he takes others with him. This guy is no better than murderer. For the passsengers, yes, condolences all around, for the pilot, my foot up his A$$ is all he would get from me. Remember the old saying, there are bold pilots and their are old pilots, but there are no bold old pilots. The one that fits this best is "Aviation is like a self cleaning Oven".
Finally you are right, I was not in the aircraft. Had I been, his failure to relinquish the controls to me due to his failue to fly the aircraft within the scope of the AFM and FARs would have resulted in a$$ whoopin' through 9,000 feet. If I am flying with someone like this and they refuse to stop, I'll do what I have to to make sure it never happens again. I'll not sit by and let someone run me into the ground while my arms are folded and my mouth is shut. No way am I going to have my family read about me burned up at the end of some runway because I let some jerk off kill me because I was too scared/weak to speak up. No thanks. No corporate job is good enough to die for. If you're dead, what's the point?
So, happy trails to this fuk, he runied several families and that is unforgivable due to the circumstances. Had this been an accident that would be one thing, but don't you dare sit up here and talk as though this was just some accident. If the pilot had walked away and the fate of the passengers remained the same, I guarentee the pilot would be in jail for negligent homicide, and the data is there to warrent such action.

 

[52560]

Folks...I find this thread very hateful. The majority of accidents are human error. All of us arm chair quarterbacks can always look back and determine where bad decisions and mistakes were made. The key here is to learn from them and move on. I don't know the pilot, and know very little about this accident, but I do know that every pilot I know has at one point or another has called a brother pilot a stupid a$$ or some other name for doing something foolish. We've all done some stupid things, but most of us are lucky enough to walk away without anybody getting hurt.

So, let me ask you this. What if this was you in this accident. How would you like not to be able to tell you side of the story to your wife, kids, etc. How about your family hearing about what a stupid idiot their husband, daddy, brother was?! There will be people that read this thread that will get killed in an airplane accident! What if it is you? Is this what you want to be said about you. Grow up folks...this reminds me of a bunch of flight students wearing Top Gun glasses and jackets sitting around talking about how good of pilots they are and they could never do something stupid. If you have never done something stupid in the cockpit, you are wasting my time because you have never flown an airplane!

You know, the bad thing about this is there are people who will want to reply and call me names, insult my professional abilities, and insult the crew of this accident even more. That is fine if you want to degrade yourself and profession. It happens very often as it is, why stop here. Sometimes I feel embarassed by some of my brothers in this profession. We are in this together guys...we need to stick together and show some repects for our brothers we have lost along the way! Just remember, you may be the subject on a thread tomorrow about an airplane crash.

 

[LRvsH25B]

Folks...I find this thread very hateful. The majority of accidents are human error. All of us arm chair quarterbacks can always look back and determine where bad decisions and mistakes were made. The key here is to learn from them and move on. I don't know the pilot, and know very little about this accident, but I do know that every pilot I know has at one point or another has called a brother pilot a stupid a$$ or some other name for doing something foolish. We've all done some stupid things, but most of us are lucky enough to walk away without anybody getting hurt.

So, let me ask you this. What if this was you in this accident. How would you like not to be able to tell you side of the story to your wife, kids, etc. How about your family hearing about what a stupid idiot their husband, daddy, brother was?! There will be people that read this thread that will get killed in an airplane accident! What if it is you? Is this what you want to be said about you. Grow up folks...this reminds me of a bunch of flight students wearing Top Gun glasses and jackets sitting around talking about how good of pilots they are and they could never do something stupid. If you have never done something stupid in the cockpit, you are wasting my time because you have never flown an airplane!

You know, the bad thing about this is there are people who will want to reply and call me names, insult my professional abilities, and insult the crew of this accident even more. That is fine if you want to degrade yourself and profession. It happens very often as it is, why stop here. Sometimes I feel embarassed by some of my brothers in this profession. We are in this together guys...we need to stick together and show some repects for our brothers we have lost along the way! Just remember, you may be the subject on a thread tomorrow about an airplane crash.

Sorry you feel the way you do but you ask what if it was one of us. The point to all of this and what makes this crash so terrible is that most of us would not be in this situation. We know better than to do the things he did. This whole incident goes well beyond doing something foolish or making a simple mistake. This guy intentionally brought this situation to the table then aggravated it by not realizing how deep in he was and having the nerve to think he was good enough to land the aircraft at double the ref speed then try to over come his own doings when it developed to a point that most test pilots could not have come away from this situation favorable. When you do the things that this guy did, how do you honestly expect the situation to turn out? There could be no good outcome; too many factors and varaibles stacked against him by him. Airplanes are designed to perform in the air, not on the ground.

 

[HS125]

Folks...I find this thread very hateful. The majority of accidents are human error. All of us arm chair quarterbacks can always look back and determine where bad decisions and mistakes were made. The key here is to learn from them and move on. I don't know the pilot, and know very little about this accident, but I do know that every pilot I know has at one point or another has called a brother pilot a stupid a$$ or some other name for doing something foolish. We've all done some stupid things, but most of us are lucky enough to walk away without anybody getting hurt.

So, let me ask you this. What if this was you in this accident. How would you like not to be able to tell you side of the story to your wife, kids, etc. How about your family hearing about what a stupid idiot their husband, daddy, brother was?! There will be people that read this thread that will get killed in an airplane accident! What if it is you? Is this what you want to be said about you. Grow up folks...this reminds me of a bunch of flight students wearing Top Gun glasses and jackets sitting around talking about how good of pilots they are and they could never do something stupid. If you have never done something stupid in the cockpit, you are wasting my time because you have never flown an airplane!

You know, the bad thing about this is there are people who will want to reply and call me names, insult my professional abilities, and insult the crew of this accident even more. That is fine if you want to degrade yourself and profession. It happens very often as it is, why stop here. Sometimes I feel embarassed by some of my brothers in this profession. We are in this together guys...we need to stick together and show some repects for our brothers we have lost along the way! Just remember, you may be the subject on a thread tomorrow about an airplane crash.

Here here, very well said.

LRvsH25B, you need to learn some humility. Learn from this mistake so that you don't screw the pooch someday!

 

[G100driver]

Folks...I find this thread very hateful. The majority of accidents are human error. All of us arm chair quarterbacks can always look back and determine where bad decisions and mistakes were made. The key here is to learn from them and move on. I don't know the pilot, and know very little about this accident, but I do know that every pilot I know has at one point or another has called a brother pilot a stupid a$$ or some other name for doing something foolish. We've all done some stupid things, but most of us are lucky enough to walk away without anybody getting hurt.

So, let me ask you this. What if this was you in this accident. How would you like not to be able to tell you side of the story to your wife, kids, etc. How about your family hearing about what a stupid idiot their husband, daddy, brother was?! There will be people that read this thread that will get killed in an airplane accident! What if it is you? Is this what you want to be said about you. Grow up folks...this reminds me of a bunch of flight students wearing Top Gun glasses and jackets sitting around talking about how good of pilots they are and they could never do something stupid. If you have never done something stupid in the cockpit, you are wasting my time because you have never flown an airplane!

You know, the bad thing about this is there are people who will want to reply and call me names, insult my professional abilities, and insult the crew of this accident even more. That is fine if you want to degrade yourself and profession. It happens very often as it is, why stop here. Sometimes I feel embarassed by some of my brothers in this profession. We are in this together guys...we need to stick together and show some repects for our brothers we have lost along the way! Just remember, you may be the subject on a thread tomorrow about an airplane crash.

1st off, we for the most part are not trying to be hateful. Just mere peer review. If I cause an accident because of my error or as in this case blatant stupidity I would expect my peers to call me on it. It is called peer review.

 

[CelticCitation]

Just reread the article that restarted this thread. The author states how he had the accident pilot tell him how he scud ran into one of the most difficult airports in the country, and didn't call him on it. Then he's man enough to write an article in a respected magazine renouncing him. This is embarrassing to me, as I had seen the same pilot do the same thing. I also did nothing to prevent it.

Now anyone can critique their judgement, yet no one did anything before it happened. Saying that you would have done this or that in the same situation is irrelevent. This wasn't an accident that we can look at, and learn to be better pilots. Anyone with a student pilot certificate knows you can't push an airplane on at twice approach speed, and make it work out. What we need to learn from this accident is how to deal with these "cowboys," and how to keep them from killing others, if not just themselves.

The article talked extensively about what the problem was, but not how to fix it. I personally am going to start talking to those I see making illegal and dangerous decisions. I really don't care what anyone thinks who wants to rehash what happened in this particular accident. I still don't defend their actions. I also don't defend the actions of those on this site, and in the magazines, and even myself, for letting this type of action sully our profession, and then strutting around like we're superior because our own stupidity hasn't killed us yet.

Shame on all of us.

 

[CapnVegetto]

What does this remind you of???

Duuuuude!! F*ck!!! 410!!! Duuuude!!!

 

[pilotviolin]

This is embarrassing to me, as I had seen the same pilot do the same thing. I also did nothing to prevent it.

I personally am going to start talking to those I see making illegal and dangerous decisions. I really don't care what anyone thinks who wants to rehash what happened in this particular accident. I still don't defend their actions. I also don't defend the actions of those on this site, and in the magazines, and even myself, for letting this type of action sully our profession, and then strutting around like we're superior because our own stupidity hasn't killed us yet.

Shame on all of us.

I think it is a Catch 22. Do you confront someone you think is stupid cowboy pilot, or let people die? How do you not let it turn into a witch hunt? It sure would be bad if someone started make accusations that weren't true about you because in their mind they think your a cowboy. What if another pilot came up to your boss and told them that you were going to ruin his Lear because you didn't wipe the struts down after each flight. (a thread that was on here about 6 months ago.) Or having your pilots fly at 470 is going to kill everyone someday. (You fly a G550, and they fly a CRJ200)

We all know of cowboy pilots. I know one right now that has landed a Gulfstream on a 5000' runway in the middle of the night on an unlighted runway in the mountains, and it wasn't a full moon. Or brags about flying for 3 days striaght without more than 5 hour breaks between flights. How do I stop them? Tell the FAA? Tell their boss? Should I go try to ruin their career before they kill someone?

 

[SonicPig]

Can anyone PM me a copy of the article? I don't get the magazine.

Thanks.

 

[G100driver]

Good question.

Get him to tell one of his stories in front of a group then call him a fool, in front of the group. He will have a hard time defending his actions if put on the defensive.

Who cares if you come across as a jerk, unless you are looking for his and others like him approvals.

 

[cjdriver]

Capnvegetto, I have to know. Are you referring to the Pinnacle crew in the CRJ just before they blew them both out?

 

[TriStar_drvr]

Has anyone been following the CE-560 (is that an Ultra?) crash at Cable Airport in Upland Claifornia that happened Saturday? Aircraft ended up in a field west of the airport (RWY 6/24), and was destroyed by fire. Three onboard have critical injuries. Pilot, along with wife and daughter were the occupants. Witnesses say aircraft briefly touched down, then engine sound increased, then crashed off the end of the runway.

I'm suprised there hasn't been any mention of this here.