Food for though: Terror vs. Cigs

[Typhoon1244]

Consider this: In 2001, Osama bin Laden's followers killed 3,000 Americans. That same year, the U.S. tobacco industry killed 3,000,000 Americans.

The federal government is now spending $100 billion a year to hire more personnel to search pilots' shoes.

They're also subsidising tobacco.

 

[Cthulhu]

Okay…

First I’m not going to dispute the figures cuz I just don’t know, assume your right.

Now, don’t most all the people who smoke do so freely and can quite freely? Did they not start out of their own free will?

I agree it’s addictive, but so is coffee and chocolate.

Worse case can’t these people seek professional medical help to quit?

Most folks I know who smoke know good-n-well it will kill them and just don’t want to quit.


Now…


Did any of those folks who died on 9/11 have a chance?

Were they given a choice?

 

[Typhoon1244]

All valid points...I was just staggered by the sheer numbers. 1000 times the number of people killed on 9/11...in a way, it's even scarier that they volunteered.

 

[Cthulhu]

We’ll during college I once saw a DOJ study of the number of people who willingly “experiment” with crack each year and the number was over a million, these were adults not kids and most were older adults at that around 30.

This knowing that crack is something like 1000 times more addictive than cocaine IIRC.

I’m not sure on that last figure but it was staggeringly high.

 

[dmspilot00]

Last time I checked coffee and chocolate were not nearly as addictive as tobacco, they do not cause cancer, and they do not harm the health nor cause suffering of the people around you.

Cigarettes should be banned.

 

[Timebuilder]

One aspect of being a free people is the ability to make decisions about LEGAL behavior that others think isn't the best choice.

After viewing an anti-somking commercial put on by "The Truth.Com" a few years ago, I wrote them a commentary, which they of course never published on their website, where they had asked poeple to submit "comments".


"As a former smoker (I chose when I began to smoke, and I chose when I would stop) I need to correct your analogy of an automotive recall, alleging that cigarettes are ”defective”.

A better analogy is the automotive airbag, which has a clear written warning of the dangers associated with its use. A good argument can be made for the benefit of using the airbag, while the benefit of cigarette use is more subjective, and is the opinion of the cigarette user.

In America, we value the opinion of free individuals regarding the use of legal products. Cigarettes are a legal product, which I have used without long term ill effect, and I did so after viewing the warning label on the package, which was an act of a free and informed consumer. I did not find the product to be defective, and there is no need for a recall.

Instead of suing tobacco companies for billions, groups of concerned people should pool their own money, and buy out the companies and the tobacco fields. As the new owners, they would simply refuse to manufacture and sell their product. Of course, they would have to continue to support several million people whose livelihood is based on tobacco, and the government would need its continued tax money from every pack not sold. Unfortunately, most of the people behind the anti-tobacco movement are lawyers, lobbyists, and activists, and the rest of us will continue to pay for their mansions. These nice people will never let such an equitable plan come anywhere near realization, and THAT is the tobacco truth.

I feel sorry for those people who ignored the warning labels and over indulged in tobacco use, and now, through some psychological gymnastics, feel comfortable seeing themselves as victims instead of free people who made choices. This is an unfortunate trend over the past several years, where we have given up more and more personal freedoms and responsibilities to faceless government entities, who supposedly act in our behalf. If only George Orwell were here today, what a bellylaugh he would have as America, the land of the free and the home of the brave, has become the land of the protected and the home of the regulated."

 

[Typhoon1244]

Well, for one thing, childhood victims of second-hand smoke don't have a choice...but that's not the point.

The point is that there are things that are statistically a lot more dangerous than international terrorism...but we don't do much about them.

 

[Andy Neill]

According to the Center for Disease Control, here are all the deaths in 2001 with their causes:

Preliminary 2001 data
Number of Deaths Annually: 2,417,798
Death Rate (age-adjusted): 849.0 deaths per 100,000 population
Ten Leading Causes of Death in the U.S.:
Heart Disease: 699,697
Cancer: 553,251
Stroke: 163,601
Chronic Lower Respiratory Disease: 123,974
Accidents: 97,707
Diabetes: 71,252
Pneumonia/Influenza: 62,123
Alzheimer's Disease: 53,679
Nephritis, nephrotic syndrome, and nephrosis: 39,661
Septicemia: 32,275

Now if you say that smoking cigarettes was the cause of ALL deaths in the US (including accidents???) then you are still over a half million short of 3 million.

I don't want to trivialize the hazards of smoking, but bogus arguments don't help the cause.

 

[Timebuilder]

Well, for one thing, childhood victims of second-hand smoke don't have a choice...but that's not the point.

Not all scientists are in agreement on second hand smoke.

My father smoked, and he is almost 86. I breathed in his second hand smoke for over 12 years, and I have no ill effects. Same for my chilhood friend, and BOTH of his parents smoked. This is before the days of low tar and nicotine products, and there were no electronic air cleaners.

I lived in New York, too, while I smoked.

Nada.

Back to your point. Sure there are many things that have more impact than terrorism. Earthquakes, floods, wars, automobiles, there is an incredible list.

Remember, there are a LOT of people that think flying should be outlawed because they think it is too dangerous.

The difference about terrorism is that it brings the decisions of strangers to bear on those who are objectively innocent of direct involvement in the concerns of a few misguided individuals, and it occurs in a manner outside the prescribed venues for reasonable dissent.

Anyone join me in an Ashton?

 

[flywithastick]

Cigarettes should be banned.

Then lets get cracking... we've got to ban Oreos, Big Macs, Beer, Whiskey, Wine, Motorcycles, airplanes (the little ones particularly), fast cars, SUVs' (because they kill the ones in the little cars), tanning beds, swimming in general, skydiving...

Where we going to draw the line? I guarantee that everyone will disagree with almost everyone else's opinion of where the line should be.

How about letting people make up their own mind and take responsibility for their own actions.

my 2¢

 

[flywithastick]

The point is that there are things that are statistically a lot more dangerous than international terrorism...but we don't do much about them. [/B]

Something that's happens to be dangerous and a consequence of free choice is *totally* different than premeditated, cold blooded murder.

 

[dmspilot00]

When someone smokes, everyone around that person is forced to inhale it. I don't see how one person eating an oreo causes other people suffering. Your reasoning is flawed.

 

[flywithastick]

When someone smokes, everyone around that person is forced to inhale it. I don't see how one person eating an oreo causes other people suffering. Your reasoning is flawed.

not at all. As for smoking affecting others directly, I have no problem with no smoking zones in restaurants, public places.

As for someone eating poorly and having heart problems, diabetes. how many of these people have to rely on a gubment handout for their increased health care? that affects me pretty negatively.

 

[Typhoon1244]

Number of Deaths Annually: 2,417,798

Now if you say that smoking cigarettes was the cause of ALL deaths in the US (including accidents???) then you are still over a half million short of 3 million.

I don't want to trivialize the hazards of smoking, but bogus arguments don't help the cause.

Well, you know what they say: garbage in, garbage out. I'm guilty of citing bad data. (On the other hand, I now see that the author in question doesn't specify whether the 3-million is nation-wide or world-wide...)

But are you saying this argument is bogus because only around 500,000 people (that's an educated guess) were killed by cigarettes as opposed to 3 million? Does that make it more acceptable?

At any rate, this thread is not about smoking...it's about priorities.

 

[Typhoon1244]

Something that's happens to be dangerous and a consequence of free choice is *totally* different than premeditated, cold blooded murder.

But how did we respond to those cold-blooded murders? We spent 1.5 billion dollars to hire more goons to strip search airline pilots.

Real effective.

 

[flywithastick]

At any rate, this thread is not about smoking...it's about priorities.

Who's going to step up and grab this situation by the horns? who knows what's best for the peeps? Don't tell me - the all-knowing, all-caring Federal Gub-ment!

 

[flywithastick]

But how did we respond to those cold-blooded murders? We spent 1.5 billion dollars to hire more goons to strip search airline pilots.

Real effective.

the American public (generally) and leadership doesn't have the guts to effectively deal with the threat.

 

[Timebuilder]

the American public (generally) and leadership doesn't have the guts to effectively deal with the threat.

Hear, hear!

 

[generaltso]

Isn't this an aviation message board?

 

[SDF2BUF2MCO]

Yes this is an aviation message board, now on with the debate...

If cigarettes were such a threat then the guberment should out law them. However, the guberment is addicted to the tax revenue they generate plus the politicians who support tobacco are getting their palms greased. That way all the politicians "win". Whatever happened to the all the tobacco money all the pimping lawyers allegedly got for the states? Speculate very few pennies went to anti-tobacco causes and the children. Most of it probably got into the hands of our corrupt politicians and lawyers. The anti-tobacco campaign is a smoke screen to shake down the tobacco companies who then pass it on to the smokers.
Snack foods, fast foods, and alcohol are next. We'll need the TSA's help to stop fat terrorism.