Fokker 28, 1 engine takeoff?

[WizardPilot]

I was in Ecuador last december to tour and to do some service there for a month. I went to the rainforest, and to get where we were going we took a Fokker 28 to the middle of nowhere. Im sitting in the plane and hear one engine the left (i was on the right) spool up, but not the right. I thought they were saving gas, but pretty soon we're in posistion and he pushed the throttles up and off we go, we were pretty high, and it was a hot day, we took probably 3/4 of this runway to get off. we start our decent and i look back through my window and I can see the intake for the jet. I looked back and NON of the fans were turning, I got my camera out and snapped a picture. I donno if the engine was on or off. here's the picture, if you guys who are more expert in jets look at it and tell me if it looks like its not spooling at all. I know there are intake blades that are fixed, but look back, you can see the 3rd row of blads, they are just stuck. Here is the link of the picture.

http://groups.msn.com/PilotGroup/shoebox.msnw?action=ShowPhoto&PhotoID=1

If you guys want a better picture, email me and ill send you a higher quality one.

Thanks guys,

Wizard

 

[jknight8907]

Looks like those are guide vanes. The actual turbine part is behind that. You can see them in this picture: http://tinyurl.com/42et2

You probably couldn't hear him start the other one over the sound of the one already running.

 

[KeroseneSnorter]

Your picture only shows the guide vanes. The Dutch blowers are built a little different than your average airliner.

No way to tell if it was running from your picture.

 

[WizardPilot]

They were stopped.

I know that the first layer is the guide veins, but if you look hard behind that you can make out the first turbine fan, and you can make out each individual fan blade. I swear the thing wasnt going. I was on the right side of the plane, and he spooled up the left engine, and usually you can hear the other one going, and i didnt hear squat. I wonder if there are more than one set of guide veins? I donno, I'm just a puiny prop man.

 

[KeroseneSnorter]

Took another look, hard to make out but you may be right. However, in flight if would have been turning (windmilling) due to the airflow. So if it was not turning in flight, the engine was completly fried and seized up.

I would say no chance if it were a US operator. But being it was Equador................well you roll the dice anytime you climb on the third world air carrier.

 

[qmaster3]

I sized it up, and it does look like they are stopped. If they were windmilling you wouldn't see em at all. Of course I'm not a FOKKER pilot/mech.

 

[User546]

I would say no chance if it were a US operator. But being it was Equador....well you roll the dice anytime you climb on the third world air carrier.

I second that! The first time I read this and got to the part that it was in Ecuador, I wouldn't put it past them to do something like that.

 

[Flying Illini]

interesting pic...it definitely seems to back up your claim.

 

[Metro752]

Thats Nucking Futs! Aero Continente only uses the #2 engine on their 727s from top of decent on down......so I hear

 

[WizardPilot]

Yeah guys, its pretty nucking futs. Keep the observations coming, it's a fun story to tell. A lot of guys say they would have been windmilling, but nothing was moving in that engine as far as I could see. But if that was the case, I don't know how much drag it would cause? would we be able to take off with one, and the other siezed? The plane was only about 1/4th full of passengers, and we did take up most of the runway on the roll. With a siezed engine would it be possible to take off with all of that drag; is the drag different from a spooling and siezed engine, I would presume so? I've never flown a jet, the engines are pretty powerful though. Jets guys could probably answer that??? If anybody knows what types of engine the Fokker 28's use?

 

[T-Gates]

F.28's have the RR Spey

 

[jknight8907]

Here's some info on the Spey:
http://www.thrustssc.com/thrustssc/Engineering/engines.html
http://www.thrustssc.com/thrustssc/Engineering/Development_of_the_Spey.html

It looks like depending on what model you have, it's about 18k of thrust each.

Do you know how long the runway was? Where was this at? That will help determine if it is even possible for the plane to have departed on one engine.

I don't think it makes much of a difference in a turbine engine if the blades are turning or not as they nearly overlap, but seeing as it's the same basic principle as a propellor, a windmilling turbine or prop will create a lot more drag than a siezed up one. For a windmilling prop, it produces as much drag as if you had a solid circle of metal out there producing drag. Since you can't feather the blades in a turbine I guess it would produce that much drag all the time.

 

[CSY Mon]

Some engine out ferry procedures calls for "Locked Rotor"

Guess ya can stop it from turning in that case, but don't know the first thing about them RR Speys.

As for taking off on one engine in a twin jet:
Yup, if the RWY is long enough, no problem, it will fly.

 

[WizardPilot]

we took off a pretty long field 8-10k feet long, it was international. We were pretty high, maybe 3000-4500 MSL. It was hot and muSo I guess that it looks like it is definitely possible that we took off on one engine.

 

[Lead Sled]

The question is: Is it theoretically possible to make a single engine takeoff? The answer is: Yes, BUT...
You'd have to have basically a runway of undetermined length. There are no charts published for such a manuever. You'd basically have to start from a high-speed taxi and slowly and gradually add power. If you simply set takeoff power you would be unable to maintain control in most aircraft. Once you achieved the "V1 du jour" it would become just another "engine failure on takeoff" scenario. In other words, not a very big deal - this is something that you practice ad nausium in the simulators.

A few years ago an "airman" tried to make a single-engine takeoff in an Aerospatiale Corvette in Portland. Oregon. Needless to say, it didn't work - the airplane was on a trailer for quite a while at Redmond, Oregon.

FWIW, engine-out ferry flights are "routine" in most 3 and 4-engine transport category aircraft; not on twins.

'Sled

 

[CSY Mon]

On the F-28, with almost centerline thrust, one could probably add full power fairly early in the game....Don't think that craft have a VMCG?

Would not try that trick in a 757 however, could end up sideways in a hurry.

 

[Lead Sled]

On the F-28, with almost centerline thrust, one could probably add full power fairly early in the game....Don't think that craft have a VMCG?

I'm sure it does have a VMCG - every twin jet, with aft mounted engines, that I've ever flown has. That's why I made the comment. I suppose you could try to keep it lined up with the tiller, but that might make for an exciting ride as well.

As I remember the Corvette story, our fearless captain's plan was to try an airstart while on the takeoff roll - once things started to windmill.

'Sled