Focus, Focus, Focus

[Dude]

Fellow Airline Brethren,

What is important to you? Quality of life, money, time off, nice equipment, what? A very valid question 6 months ago, yes? How about now?
I have a stack of resumes from gentlemen I am glad to call friends. Most of these men are far more qualified than I and have paid their dues. Some military, some civilian. Looking at these resumes makes me realize what is important. HAVING A JOB! Maybe not the best job, but a job. By the way, what is the best job, anymore? Delta, AA, UAL, or USA? I think not. The best job is the one that feeds your family and offers you the dignity of having the ability to pay your bills without the assistance of others.
Please do not misunderstand me. This rant has nothing to do with unions, scope, management, or work rules. I am only trying to point out that many of us are losing site of our responsibility to the each other. 6 months ago, we were in the position to demand better pay, work rules and etc.... Now we need to be focused on what is going to allow us to keep our jobs long enough for our respective employers to get out of the financial woods. Bargaining power is important, but there doesn't always have to be a negotiation going on.
Go to work, do your job, don't piss and moan, and hang on to your issues for a later day. You will have the opportunity to change things, but now is not the time.

Regards,

A Thankful Pilot

 

[publisher]

Thank you

About 4 months ago, the American public shelled out $4billion dollars of their money to keep an industry going.

How do you think Mom and Pop would like it if they were treated to watching up close recent events. Yeah, we lost service to our small town because some people want to hold an airline hostage until their needs are met.

How do you think that the parents of a young person killed in Afganistan is going to feel when the arbitrator at Delta is discussing whether this was really a war.

How would the postions we take be viewed in history?

Not very well I am afraid. We are so caught up in who is doing what to whom that we can't focus on the important. We owe the people that bailed us out or thousands more may have been out of work and airlines busted.

We got so caught up in the cheap rhetoric accompaning our chest puffing that we forgot who really pays for our employment.

 

[surfnole]

Yeah, we lost service to our small town because some people want to hold an airline hostage until their needs are met.

Are you referring to the Comair strike?

Thats an interesting perspective if so. The airline pays a pilot 20K a year to spend his life away from home, and you blame the pilot for holding the airline hostage, and not mgmt.

 

[Bluto]

This kind of thinking is why regional airline pilots are paid poverty-level wages while flying the same passengers, and in some cases, along the same routes as their "Major" counterparts. Publisher, it's too bad you have such a low opinion of pilots. You act as if management is doing regional pilots a favor by giving them a place to work, regardless of the conditions. Again, this is the kind of thinking that has the industry in its current condition. I, personally, would rather extend a furlough by a year or more, rather than see my coworkers concede much-needed provisions in our contact. Focus, focus, focus on making wherever you work a place worthy of the hard work and long hours most employees put into it. Make it a place, to which, furloughed pilots would want to return.

 

[d328pilot]

easy to say when you are not on furlough

 

[publisher]

Actually

Actually I was refering more to the proposed cuts of service in the American plan.

I do not resent pilots at all. Nor do I think that management does any favors to anyone. The point I was making is it is the public that supports the flying. In the end they pay the salaries. They paid this windfall to support airlines when September 11 happened.

Frankly, I do not see any slaves out there. If the conditions are so miserable, go find something else to do. As the joke goes, how do you tell the difference between a pilot and a plane. The plane stops whining when it is parked at the gate.

I am just tired of people acting like 10 year old children.

 

[RichardFitzwell]

This kind of thinking is why regional airline pilots are paid poverty-level wages while flying the same passengers, and in some cases, along the same routes as their "Major" counterparts...

I, personally, would rather extend a furlough by a year or more, rather than see my coworkers concede much-needed provisions in our contact. Focus, focus, focus on making wherever you work a place worthy of the hard work and long hours most employees put into it. Make it a place, to which, furloughed pilots would want to return.

Bluto,

I can't agree with you more and I AM speaking as a furloughed pilot. I have been contemplating what I will do as a 'new career' and I see many jobs making more than three times Regional pay for only a few weeks of training. I can't believe it! A Pharmaceutical Rep. starts around $50K with a car in my area and they won't loose their job because of a bad 'check ride.'

R.F.

 

[Dude]

Wait A Second

Guys,
I'm not saying that we should all concede and give up very neccessary provisions in the contracts. What I am saying is that we, as a pilot group, do not have the bargaining power we used to have. This is not the time to prove a point. Now is the time to go to work and wait until it is appropriate to plead our case. There will be no martyrs here.
The simple fact is that management holds the cards and the power, right now. There is no excuse for solidarity speeches and sitting in circles, kissing each other in the ear and talking about how valuable we are. Everyone already knows that.
A kick-ass contract is only good when your company is doing business. Scoping your company out of business or not willing to give a little in tough times-well, I won't feel sorry for you when your out of work.

 

[Simon Says]

"Yeah, we lost service to our small town because some people want to hold an airline hostage until their needs are met." stated by Publisher


Um.......Back in 1978 when de-regulation was passed there was a little clause in there called "Essential Air Service". It pretty much says an airline has to give the Department of Transportation 90 days notice before up-rooting. And in order for the airline to leave there has to be another airline to take its place or the original airline cannot discontinue service.

So how did you lose air service to your small town?

 

[RichardFitzwell]

This is not the time to prove a point. Now is the time to go to work and wait until it is appropriate to plead our case. There will be no martyrs here.
The simple fact is that management holds the cards and the power, right now. There is no excuse for solidarity speeches and sitting in circles, kissing each other in the ear and talking about how valuable we are. Everyone already knows that.
A kick-ass contract is only good when your company is doing business. Scoping your company out of business or not willing to give a little in tough times-well, I won't feel sorry for you when your out of work. [/B]

Dude,

I know the point you are trying to make but it isn't realistic. There is NO good time to negotiate a contract. Contracts usually last four years or longer. In that time frame a lot of changes take place at an airline. A pilot group should NOT, under any circumstance, relax on scope issues just because of what is going on in the industry today.

Are you willing to cap your pay at $25K until your airline decides they have some EXTRA money lying around and they want to pay their employees more. Don't hold your breath! I'll bet airlines' CEOs aren't afraid of putting a little more in their pockets. I know the CEO at the airline I'm furloughed from made better than $5 million last year.

Think about what you are saying. I do agree with the fact that employees can't demand wages the company can't aford to pay and I don't think a B737 F/O needs $250,000 per year. But its up to the company to say 'NO.'

R.F.

 

[tarp]

What????

Dude and Publisher - I gotta say you guys are out there!

We should take it easy on our poor employers? Are you kidding me? We get paid dirt for wages, have work rules that make jail time look good and have no retirement or quality of life.

ACA took the $23 Mil from the government and then turned around and reported a $34Mil profit for this year with a BAD last quarter with a $1Mil loss. The money gleaned off by top management was so meager that they were able to buy a chain of chicken restaurants to diversify their income. Yet they furloughed 60 back office staff, cut expenses to the bone and cancelled our profit sharing plan. Yeah - I really feel sorry for them! (Dripping sarcasm)

Every day you go to work for a company that you do not personally own, it is your duty to improve yourself and get the most pay and benefits you can from your employer. No one will look out for your well being except you.

Pilots are not driving airline companies under. Airline management and the US pre-occupation with stock price are the root cause of problems. The greed exhibited at the upper levels of almost every major corporation in America is almost without historical precedence.

Do you think my sacrifice at $40K a year is going to make a difference to a $1Bil company? Absolutely not! How about the CEO, CFO, COO and CIO salaries - could that have an impact? You bet. How about the thousands of Stock Options those individuals hold? Sure. How about that mutual fund who is demanding a $1/share increase this year on the 2 million shares they own? Yeah - now were talking about real money!

Wake up!

The rich get rich and the poor get poorer.

 

[Simon Says]

HAHAHAHA..........Tarp, You are so right. Is that true ACA is now competing with KFC. Shoot I think Mesaba ought to get into the burger business.

Dont take too much of what Publisher says. After all of those "advertising" posts he put out for his pay for training indoc training or whatever he has school he lost all of his credabillity with me.

 

[kilomike]

Tarp,
Well Said!!

kilomike

 

[publisher]

School

I do not now nor have I ever had a school nor do I have a bunch of advertisers who are PFT schools although it is a bit unclear just what the definition is.

It seems to make everyone mad when we take the position that we do not care of people select to pay for training to advance around others in the competition for an airline job. If a young man asked me about it, I would suggest he go traditional and pursue a 4 year degree and a a slow but steady path. If a 32 year old asks, I would be more likely discuss their options for programs that do not waste time on what is not the important.

On small town service, EAS is not always very effective. I was referring to the cities that Eagle would shut down under current plans.

I am not an advocate for management, think there is entirely too much short term thinking. I am an advocate for the public that pays the bills for poor management and our of control labor groups.

Obviously my thinking on PFT means that I do not know anything about the airline or aviation business. I really do think that this idustry is faced with some extremely tough issues and complex problems that are way too simplified on these boards.

 

[jaybird]

Bluto,

I can't agree with you more and I AM speaking as a furloughed pilot. I have been contemplating what I will do as a 'new career' and I see many jobs making more than three times Regional pay for only a few weeks of training. I can't believe it! A Pharmaceutical Rep. starts around $50K with a car in my area and they won't loose their job because of a bad 'check ride.'

R.F.

My girlfriend is a pharmaceutial sales rep. and man does she have it good! All kinds of free $$hit$$. She get to take doctors to all kinds of nice places. Dinners at sweet restaurants, cruises, rounds of golf, the company car, and loads of pens plus other fun stuff to play with. I get to come along sometimes if I'm lucky. Oh yeah, she has the schedule of an airline captain too, I swear she's home at least two days of her five day work week. A lot of ass kissing though.