Focus Air/ERAU

Yeah

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This is part of an aritcle I found about a "Bridge" program with ERAU and Focus. What do you guys think of this? Any of you who work at Focus care to talk about it? How many hours do these guys/gals have before sitting sideways on a 747? Sounds pretty amazing to me.

Focus Air Hires Four Flight Officers from CAPT Program



Daytona Beach, Fla., Feb. 23, 2005 -- Embry-Riddle Aeronautical University has successfully placed four graduates of its Commercial Airline Pilot Training (CAPT) program as flight officers at Focus Air, a worldwide cargo carrier. The graduates will begin March 1 with Focus Air. Under a New-Hire Bridge Program agreement with the carrier, the four CAPT graduates will be employed in Focus Air’s flight operations center as flight followers for six months and six more months in other capacities to acquaint them with the international cargo business. They will then train to become Boeing 747 flight engineers for 12 months, followed by training to become B-747 first officers.
 
O

Otto Coarsen

LAME... Exploiting the young and hungry into flying whales for (rumor has it) $200 bucks a week. For a kid with 250 hours, and nothing but 172 time, International flying in the 47 sounds great for probably 20 bucks a week...

I think it's a pretty lame thing to save big bucks by not hiring PFE's or higher time S/o's at a normal wage.

All I have to say is good luck to the Captains when the $hit hits the fan over the Pacific and you've got a 250 hour piston boy minding the Rolls Royces...

I don't think Focus has an airworthy cert yet, but when it does, I'm certain they'll emerge as cannon fodder to the flightinfo group following in the footsteps of GIA and TAB Express.
 

de727ups

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Huh?
"For a kid with 250 hours, and nothing but 172 time"

Oh no, they have 300 hours and an MD90 type rating.....

I think it's sick they give large jet type ratings to 300 hour pilots, but that's just me. At CAPT's website they tout their placement record at Focus Air. Is it true Focus hasn't turned a wheel yet?
 

fogrunner

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Metro752 said:
How many hours do those guys in C-17s and C-5s have?

Apples and Oranges. Riddle grads do not have 200 hours of high performance jet time. This program is a joke......
 

Whale Rider

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Looks like the Captains at Focus have thier work cut out for them.
 

CSY Mon

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Hmm, had dinner and drinks with one of these ERAU/Focus kids this evening.

Have mixed feelings about the program for the above stated reasons, but
also got a sense of how they work hard to be in the "right place"..For lack of a better word I guess.

I would rather have the youngsters in the right seat, where I can keep an eye on them, than on the panel where thay can really go to town without any warning untill 4 engines flame out, or the cockpit goes dark, or the masks in the back are dropping down.

Back in the 60s UAL hired private pilots with a few hours.
Guess the entry level position was on the panel of the DC-8 or the 727...?
 

jafo20

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You can probably train these kids to run the 747. 400 hour kids fly heavies in the third world, and although we'd all like to pretend we're extremely skilled individuals, none of this is beyond the capabilities of your average guy. In fact, someone with 800 hours and a lot of time flying large recips (DC-3 FO, B-18, Beaver, anything with turbochargers, etc) often has a good eye to care for engines, systems, etc.

The bigger problem with this CAPT program is this: Although you can train a kid to run any type of powerplant or system, you can't take a rich kid and give him common sense.

This is the big diff between military C-17 pilots and ERAU cadets. The military has a high rate of attrition and is selective on who gets what flight slot. ERAU has nowhere near the attrition of the military and they select their candidates based on financial ability, rather than academic and professional skill. Consequently, both the military and ERAU produce sharp candidates, but ERAU also produces a disproportionately high number of numbskulls.

Those of you who want to yell at me, please feel free to send me a PM.
 

SLFLYHI

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jafo20 said:
Those of you who want to yell at me, please feel free to send me a PM.

Actually, I think you hit it exactly right.
 

NickASA

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jafo20 said:
You can probably train these kids to run the 747. 400 hour kids fly heavies in the third world, and although we'd all like to pretend we're extremely skilled individuals, none of this is beyond the capabilities of your average guy. In fact, someone with 800 hours and a lot of time flying large recips (DC-3 FO, B-18, Beaver, anything with turbochargers, etc) often has a good eye to care for engines, systems, etc.

The bigger problem with this CAPT program is this: Although you can train a kid to run any type of powerplant or system, you can't take a rich kid and give him common sense.

This is the big diff between military C-17 pilots and ERAU cadets. The military has a high rate of attrition and is selective on who gets what flight slot. ERAU has nowhere near the attrition of the military and they select their candidates based on financial ability, rather than academic and professional skill. Consequently, both the military and ERAU produce sharp candidates, but ERAU also produces a disproportionately high number of numbskulls.

Those of you who want to yell at me, please feel free to send me a PM.

Couldn't have said it better myself. My UPT class had a 25% wash rate.
 

Draginass

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The other part to remember is that a young pilot in a military squadron is very closely supervised all the time, by the same people. They also receive much higher quality training while on the line . . vice a commercial job of doing the same few tasks over and over again. A low-time, low-experience pilot that is shuffled from captain to captain, flight to flight is not fair to him, or the rest of the crew.
 

Whale Rider

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CSY Mon said:
Hmm, had dinner and drinks with one of these ERAU/Focus kids this evening.

Have mixed feelings about the program for the above stated reasons, but
also got a sense of how they work hard to be in the "right place"..For lack of a better word I guess.

I would rather have the youngsters in the right seat, where I can keep an eye on them, than on the panel where thay can really go to town without any warning untill 4 engines flame out, or the cockpit goes dark, or the masks in the back are dropping down.

Back in the 60s UAL hired private pilots with a few hours.
Guess the entry level position was on the panel of the DC-8 or the 727...?

I wouldn't want to be in a position as Captain where I had to "keep an eye" on the FO's all the time. Especially on international operations. There are too many chances of things to go wrong. If the Captain has to watch everything every minute, its going to wear on him and then it'll start making for a very unpleasant flight deck.
 

Flywrite

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FWIW I spoke to one of their FEs (a real PFE with lots of experience) in MIA last week and he indicated that they did have their certificate now.
 

CSY Mon

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FWIW I spoke to one of their FEs (a real PFE with lots of experience) in MIA last week and he indicated that they did have their certificate now.


Yup, they have started revenue flights as of a few days ago.
 

AZ Typed

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jafo20 said:
You can probably train these kids to run the 747. 400 hour kids fly heavies in the third world, and although we'd all like to pretend we're extremely skilled individuals, none of this is beyond the capabilities of your average guy. In fact, someone with 800 hours and a lot of time flying large recips (DC-3 FO, B-18, Beaver, anything with turbochargers, etc) often has a good eye to care for engines, systems, etc.

The bigger problem with this CAPT program is this: Although you can train a kid to run any type of powerplant or system, you can't take a rich kid and give him common sense.

This is the big diff between military C-17 pilots and ERAU cadets. The military has a high rate of attrition and is selective on who gets what flight slot. ERAU has nowhere near the attrition of the military and they select their candidates based on financial ability, rather than academic and professional skill. Consequently, both the military and ERAU produce sharp candidates, but ERAU also produces a disproportionately high number of numbskulls.

Those of you who want to yell at me, please feel free to send me a PM.

Well said. Though I once taught at ERAU and I know first hand that not *everybody* gets in or "makes it" - their is an element of screening in place - not enough though!

AZT
 

AZ Typed

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Whale Rider said:
I wouldn't want to be in a position as Captain where I had to "keep an eye" on the FO's all the time.

How about the FOs who have to watch their captains - happens more often than not. Just because you're in the left seat doesn't mean you're any good at what you're doing - fact.

AZT
 

Mayday911

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Who are the customers that they are flying for?
 

dashflyer

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Here's a question.............


Since these kids come out with a MD-90 type, would you put them in the left seat of your MD-90 right out of training?

Probably not.

But I bet if you let them, they'd jump in that left seat in a second!

Thats where the difference lies in training and experience.

Experience would dictate that you fly the right seat for awhile and get the experience of flying from Point A to Point B w/o the engine failing, electrical, hydraulic problem. We can train monkey's for that.

We can train monkeys to fly, but we can't teach them judgement.
 

twabudman

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how about that they are hiring these kids to be flight followers because FOCUS did not want to pay to hire Dispatchers....121 Supp says you only need flight followers.....
responsibility is on the Capt and Chief Pilot.....
 
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