Looks like the wheels are just about ready to fall off this S... wagon. I am looking for the finer points of how to start finding info on interview proceedures/requirements for the majors...including jet blue. Also looking for inputs on the ATP vs Type thing. Not really set on any A word at this time but my exit timing is coming up and I have to start the planning...
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Ah yes, I love being the new guy. From the other forums on this site I see that many individuals like to "pick fights" so sorry if I offended anybody. I forgot that civilian aviation is just like the military. Everybody thinking their jet/company is the **CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED** even when their own **CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED** isn't in a bag. Anyway, I'm still looking for any info...maybe you should put in a request to have JB listed as a major...even though they aren't.
Oh-ryan
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- 534
whoa whoa whoa there Brick! I am a military bubba like yourself... no need for the potty mouth.
Just trying to give you some pointers as you start your transition. Perhaps my tone was a bit poor... I admit that. Rather than say I am looking for help with getting to the majors, "including JetBlue", I might have gone the route of..."Hey, I am interested in airline x,y, and z... anybody got advice". Semantics you say... yes probably, but there is very little room for error nowadays.
just my $0.02.
good luck
O-r
Just trying to give you some pointers as you start your transition. Perhaps my tone was a bit poor... I admit that. Rather than say I am looking for help with getting to the majors, "including JetBlue", I might have gone the route of..."Hey, I am interested in airline x,y, and z... anybody got advice". Semantics you say... yes probably, but there is very little room for error nowadays.
just my $0.02.
good luck
O-r
MercuryPilot
Go NAVY! Beat Army!
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- Nov 17, 2002
- Posts
- 117
First off you need to stay current w/the industry. For example, JetBlue became a major last summer. Also, AirTran just made it to the "majors" as well!
You probably need to start out by reading everyone's annual reports, getting your medical & ATP, and filling out some online applications.
MP
You probably need to start out by reading everyone's annual reports, getting your medical & ATP, and filling out some online applications.
MP
kevdog
Well-known member
- Joined
- Oct 26, 2002
- Posts
- 888
I'd start by getting your ratings in order. It's easy to get the ATP...go to www.allatps.com to get going. The sooner the better. If you're planning on applying to SWA, get your 737 type rating. I recommend these dudes: www.crewpilottraining.com I had a good experience (sts), they were cheaper than some others, and it was low threat. If you're applying to FDX, get your FE written. Allatps can do that, too. They have some package deals.
Get your apps in online and contact all your bros at the airlines you want to work for. The bro system is alive and well. It's not true there is a super secret handshake at Fedex, but you do have to 3 recs from guys that work there, 2 of which have to have flown with you. You'll do better if you have a separation date. If you go in with, "well, I'll get out if you hire me, but stay in if you don't," it just doesn't seem to work. I think you'd be better off having a date, and if things don't work out, begging to stay in longer. Good luck, bro. I know how stressful it is, but make a decision, bust your ass, and START EARLY.
Get your apps in online and contact all your bros at the airlines you want to work for. The bro system is alive and well. It's not true there is a super secret handshake at Fedex, but you do have to 3 recs from guys that work there, 2 of which have to have flown with you. You'll do better if you have a separation date. If you go in with, "well, I'll get out if you hire me, but stay in if you don't," it just doesn't seem to work. I think you'd be better off having a date, and if things don't work out, begging to stay in longer. Good luck, bro. I know how stressful it is, but make a decision, bust your ass, and START EARLY.
Mooseflyer
Well-known member
- Joined
- Feb 8, 2004
- Posts
- 284
Ivan's right on the mark. Start NOW getting your ATP (I, too, did the 4 day AllATPs course with the ATP written, ATP practical, and FE written), as you can't really start applying anywhere without it. Once you've covered the basics so you can start sending out resumes, I'd focus on getting a Guard/Reserve job lined up. That will do 5 things for you.... 1. Keep you current, 2. Build you up to more competitive time, 3. Be an excellent network, 4. Keep the bills paid. and perhaps most importanly 5. Get you off active duty. In your spare time you can start on all the other stuff, such as......
-Getting your restricted radiotelephone operator permit
-Researching 10 year residence and employment history
-Requesting high school and college transcripts
-Requesting drivers records from the NDR as well as all states in which you've had a licence
-Requesting your FAA records (assuming you've had an FAA ticket before)
-Building (or rebuilding) your personal network
-Getting letters of rec from said network
-Tracking down your marrage, birth, etc records
-Buying a suit
-Reading some "how to interview" books
-Getting a passport, if you don't already have one
-Surfing flightinfo.com
Best of luck......
-Getting your restricted radiotelephone operator permit
-Researching 10 year residence and employment history
-Requesting high school and college transcripts
-Requesting drivers records from the NDR as well as all states in which you've had a licence
-Requesting your FAA records (assuming you've had an FAA ticket before)
-Building (or rebuilding) your personal network
-Getting letters of rec from said network
-Tracking down your marrage, birth, etc records
-Buying a suit
-Reading some "how to interview" books
-Getting a passport, if you don't already have one
-Surfing flightinfo.com
Best of luck......
Last edited:
Fins Up
Fly Fast, Live Slow
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- 961
Brick1,
I'm in almost the same boat you are. When I get out next March, I'll have about 2300TT. My PIC time will only be about 900. Yours is probably more.
Anyway, I feel my quals are a little low for most of the bigs. I may have to suck it up for a year in a smaller operation to push my PIC time up a little. The pay will probably suck, but you gotta do what you gotta do.
If you really want to know who is legacy/major/regional/etc and what they pay, go to http://www.airlinepilotcentral.com/content/view/44/36/
If anyone thinks my info is way off, I'm sure you won't hesitate to tell me.
I'm in almost the same boat you are. When I get out next March, I'll have about 2300TT. My PIC time will only be about 900. Yours is probably more.
Anyway, I feel my quals are a little low for most of the bigs. I may have to suck it up for a year in a smaller operation to push my PIC time up a little. The pay will probably suck, but you gotta do what you gotta do.
If you really want to know who is legacy/major/regional/etc and what they pay, go to http://www.airlinepilotcentral.com/content/view/44/36/
If anyone thinks my info is way off, I'm sure you won't hesitate to tell me.
Bjammin
Cease Buzzer
- Joined
- May 13, 2004
- Posts
- 585
Just seeing that list make me cringe! I spent over 10K to get 5 interviews with different airlines, but to get hired that's what you have to do.
Just a side note. I joined Air. Inc as well. Alot of people say bad things about them and I agree with most of it. They take money from guys looking for jobs, throw some books and job fairs at them, and there is no guareatee of getting an interview with anyboby, but after one job fair in LA, I had 2 interviews set up for American Eagle and ASA and got 2 more phone calls a week later form Cathay Pacific and SWA. Could have been coincidence on the phone calls, but maybe not. Even if you are not interested in a regional you can at least get some interview practice and use them as a backup. You don't need to be a member to visit a job fair, but the price is lower and the books they give you helped me write a good resume and gave me contact information. Also I got a $500 discount on my type rating from Aeroservice which covered the cost of my membership. Not a bad deal.
In addition to the above list:
Get a good resume built
Get you log book on a spredsheet and keep it up to date.
Some airlines let you do a conversion factor. Jet Blue is add .3 per sortie and SWA is add .3 per flight hour. That maybe reversed, sorry, but with a spreadsheet program it easy to tailor your log book for each airline you interview with.
Also, the reserves ROCK! I have basically been non stop flying since last July doing alot of extra drills and getting active duty for weeks at a time. To be able to get the time off you need to interview and leave when you go to ground school is HUGE! Tough to get on with a good flying unit, but rush your buddies and set up a good network.
Just a side note. I joined Air. Inc as well. Alot of people say bad things about them and I agree with most of it. They take money from guys looking for jobs, throw some books and job fairs at them, and there is no guareatee of getting an interview with anyboby, but after one job fair in LA, I had 2 interviews set up for American Eagle and ASA and got 2 more phone calls a week later form Cathay Pacific and SWA. Could have been coincidence on the phone calls, but maybe not. Even if you are not interested in a regional you can at least get some interview practice and use them as a backup. You don't need to be a member to visit a job fair, but the price is lower and the books they give you helped me write a good resume and gave me contact information. Also I got a $500 discount on my type rating from Aeroservice which covered the cost of my membership. Not a bad deal.
In addition to the above list:
Get a good resume built
Get you log book on a spredsheet and keep it up to date.
Some airlines let you do a conversion factor. Jet Blue is add .3 per sortie and SWA is add .3 per flight hour. That maybe reversed, sorry, but with a spreadsheet program it easy to tailor your log book for each airline you interview with.
Also, the reserves ROCK! I have basically been non stop flying since last July doing alot of extra drills and getting active duty for weeks at a time. To be able to get the time off you need to interview and leave when you go to ground school is HUGE! Tough to get on with a good flying unit, but rush your buddies and set up a good network.
Last edited:
MercuryPilot
Go NAVY! Beat Army!
- Joined
- Nov 17, 2002
- Posts
- 117
Actually, JB uses a multiplier of 1.3 for your military time. Can't speak for the other companies.
I'd recommend one AIR Inc job fair but not joining the Kit Darby "Union." Also, use Aaron Hagan for your interview prep over AIR Inc. Don't forget that if you qualify for the GI Bill you can get some $$$ towards your type. If you don't qualify now you will qualify once you become a Reserve/Guard pilot. Get a copy of the Reservists almanac. Check Amazon.com for a copy or your Exchange.
MP
I'd recommend one AIR Inc job fair but not joining the Kit Darby "Union." Also, use Aaron Hagan for your interview prep over AIR Inc. Don't forget that if you qualify for the GI Bill you can get some $$$ towards your type. If you don't qualify now you will qualify once you become a Reserve/Guard pilot. Get a copy of the Reservists almanac. Check Amazon.com for a copy or your Exchange.
MP
AdlerDriver
Can't even hold reserve!
- Joined
- Feb 10, 2005
- Posts
- 442
Come on...the thing said list everything you have and when you only have the one inch can opener...well, you need to list it all. 200 hrs single engine still counts...1800 A/OA-10/AT-38. Be happy I didn't list my glider time...trying not to scrape all the way to the bottom.
Good words from all...much appreciated...starting to realize this will be a long hall...but it's better than the B.S. active duty stuff I'm seeing.
Good words from all...much appreciated...starting to realize this will be a long hall...but it's better than the B.S. active duty stuff I'm seeing.
skiddriver
Well-known member
- Joined
- Nov 27, 2001
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- 405
kevdog said:
Commercial license requires an equivalency test (subset of the full commercial) and verification of qualifications and currency from your logbook and training records. Commercial not required for mil to get an ATP if they meet the qualifications and currency requirements for commerical equivalency and for the ATP, and pass the ATP written and practical.
AdlerDriver
Can't even hold reserve!
- Joined
- Feb 10, 2005
- Posts
- 442
kevdog said:
Actually, about 3/4 of the way through UPT a company came in and offered to get us our commercial license. We voluntarily spent 8 hours on a Saturday in their program. We saw every question possible (somthing like 800 total) in that time and then took the test. I think it was something like 200-300 questions. Anyway, by the end of the day we all had our commercial multi-engine (centerline thrust restricted) license. Not that it did me much good for the next 12 years - I guess I could have flown a skymaster for hire if I wanted to.
YeOldeProp
Well-known member
- Joined
- Feb 12, 2002
- Posts
- 102
Welcome to the continuing exodus to the "other side of the fence". Mooseflyer gave you great words to follow...if you cross paths with him someday---you buy the first round. The AIRINC/Darby scam is a tough one. His group tends to take a lot of $200+ membership fees and folks mostly seem to be unimpressed with the service and info. The Air Inc job fair is a sight to behold though, and probably worth the inflated entry fee to actually see the number of young civvie pilots who've put a lot of effort, time and dollars to be pretty competitive versus the mil-types who also put a lot of time in, but has Uncle Sam to pay the bills and the support flight network. You can (and will) learn a lot from the civvie pilots when you get a chance to fly with them...they've paid their dues. You'll also see the number of military types who really are neophytes when it comes to preparing for the real world (been there...done that...was humbled...had to buy the T-shirt).
Before you throw $$$$'s towards the Air Inc thing, check the base library for their books in the reference section. If it's not there, see if they can get copies. I saw their whole kit in a couple of CONUS base libraries (unless your wing king has decided it's not conducive to proper military education to know what awaits you outside the main gate...saw that too). This website is a goldmine of info...do many searches and learn from others.
Good luck, fly safe...
Before you throw $$$$'s towards the Air Inc thing, check the base library for their books in the reference section. If it's not there, see if they can get copies. I saw their whole kit in a couple of CONUS base libraries (unless your wing king has decided it's not conducive to proper military education to know what awaits you outside the main gate...saw that too). This website is a goldmine of info...do many searches and learn from others.
Good luck, fly safe...
pilot141
Professional Cynic
- Joined
- Nov 26, 2001
- Posts
- 274
Also Brick1 if you don't have anyone in your squadron who is the current "airline guru" then become it.
When you track down all the nit-noid BS that MooseFlyer detailed (and you will), keep it all. Keep a record of the place to send your app for the Restricted Radiotelephone Operator Permit. Keep a record of where you sent the (always a PITA) notarized National Driver's Record Check. Find a good AME in your area (ehhh......that means a doc who gives FAA Medicals). Slog through all that crap so you know it backwards and forwards. And then help your buds out. It will pay BIG dividends in the future.
Good luck!
When you track down all the nit-noid BS that MooseFlyer detailed (and you will), keep it all. Keep a record of the place to send your app for the Restricted Radiotelephone Operator Permit. Keep a record of where you sent the (always a PITA) notarized National Driver's Record Check. Find a good AME in your area (ehhh......that means a doc who gives FAA Medicals). Slog through all that crap so you know it backwards and forwards. And then help your buds out. It will pay BIG dividends in the future.
Good luck!
VVJM265
Well-known member
- Joined
- Apr 13, 2005
- Posts
- 497
Brick1,
Couple of yrs out from retirement myself and making the preparations already. Couple of things that I have found useful:
- Convert your logbook to an electronic one now, I'd reccomend a commercial version unless you are an Excel god (I use LogBook Pro). Add a column for number of legs per mission since each airline use different conversion factors. The sooner you get it converted, the less painful it will be. Then keep it current after each flight.
- Highly reccommend getting a copy of the AIM/FAR and FAA's Airplane flying handbook. Comm uses some some terms & techniques you may not be familar with (V speeds, GPS approaches, RVSM, etc.) Lots of good books at www.pilotmall.com , www.asa2fly.com , and of course Sporty's.
- Get your ATP asap.
Good Luck!
Couple of yrs out from retirement myself and making the preparations already. Couple of things that I have found useful:
- Convert your logbook to an electronic one now, I'd reccomend a commercial version unless you are an Excel god (I use LogBook Pro). Add a column for number of legs per mission since each airline use different conversion factors. The sooner you get it converted, the less painful it will be. Then keep it current after each flight.
- Highly reccommend getting a copy of the AIM/FAR and FAA's Airplane flying handbook. Comm uses some some terms & techniques you may not be familar with (V speeds, GPS approaches, RVSM, etc.) Lots of good books at www.pilotmall.com , www.asa2fly.com , and of course Sporty's.
- Get your ATP asap.
Good Luck!
Goose17
Well-known member
- Joined
- Nov 27, 2001
- Posts
- 528
my Korean suits
My Korean suits got me through many interviews and all ended with job offers. Unless the suit looks nasty, which I doubt, you'll be fine. I like my suits and still wear them today - fits like a glove (a Korean glove). ; )
The best thing you can do to prepare for your transition is to start early. Get ALL your ducks in a row including your finances. Be prepared for $18k for a couple years followed by $45k or so for a couple more and you will have a lot less stress than the guy who gets out with a couple grand in his checking account.
Good luck.
Goose17
My Korean suits got me through many interviews and all ended with job offers. Unless the suit looks nasty, which I doubt, you'll be fine. I like my suits and still wear them today - fits like a glove (a Korean glove). ; )
The best thing you can do to prepare for your transition is to start early. Get ALL your ducks in a row including your finances. Be prepared for $18k for a couple years followed by $45k or so for a couple more and you will have a lot less stress than the guy who gets out with a couple grand in his checking account.
Good luck.
Goose17
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