Flying the Global Express

[Heavy Set]

An out-of-work friend of mine has an opportunity to interview for an FO position on a Global Express. He has a lot of international flying time - he has 747 experience.

Anyone out there fly one of these aircraft? What are your impressions? How do they compare with what you used to fly?


Thanks

 

[hogdriver00]

global

Heavy,

For the most part it's a good airplane. The comparison that I've heard is that the GV is a pilots AC and the Global is a Pax AC. I think that's probably true. It has what you would expect in the way of new program problems. I've heard the GV has had less.
The performance numbers for T/O and Lnd are impressive and it's pretty comfortable.
On the downside, it's a little tricky in a strong X-wind, you feel every bump on the ground because you sit on the NW, in fact you feel a lot of things up front that are not felt in the back. The wings are about twelve feet in front of the nose when you turn on the ground and some FBO's are not that familiar so you need to be careful.
I like it.

Hog

 

[GVFlyer]

There is an extensive discussion on the Global at:




http://forums.flightinfo.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=3197

 

[hogdriver00]

Global Express

GV,

Not trying to throw spears at you, just an observation but do you work for Gulfstream? The reason I ask is that although some of what you say about the Global is true much of it is not. Your posts sound like a demo pilot trying to trash the competition.

Hog

 

[robebcan]

Flying the GEX

The GEX is an incredible pilot's airplane. It has somewhat more feel than a Falcon, but is light, responsive and stable. I have flown upwards of 30 aircraft, and none have been as nice as a Global in a crosswind. Additionally, it is as easy to land as a B-747. It is an absolute delight to fly most of the time, but especially in rotten weather. My experience on this aircraft exceeds 5 years, yet I still hand-fly it from/to altitude and use the A/P only for cruise, because it is so easy to fly smoothly. Most of the early problems were nuisances, and these have been overcome either through outright fixes or operator awareness.

 

[hogdriver00]

Global

Not!

 

[GVFlyer]

Re: Global Express

GV,

Your posts sound like a demo pilot trying to trash the competition.

Hog

Sound like a demo pilot... that's not a very nice thing to say. Ask one of those guys what one-half rho V squared is, or the trig equation for radius-of-turn or to explain the difference between CL beta and CL delta r or any other fundamental of flight and they'll tell you about automatic 3-zone temperature control and humidifiers in the optional bidet

I ate dinner with a friend who's a Dassault salesman in New York last week. He was pretty trashed having just returned from the Singapore Airshow, but his information on the future of the Global was the same as mine. It is unlikely that the Global Express production line will be restarted. 81 aircraft have been delivered and just over 100 built. Completions on the final aircraft will be done in Montreal. Marshalls of Cambridge, who was slated to do over 20 completions has had their contract canceled by Bombardier.

I've had a chance to fly the Global since my earlier posts and there are a few more things I don't like about it. Don't dare interupt the built-in-tests on start-up or you'll end up rebooting the whole airplane. When evaluated for control friction, breakout, and freeplay you find that roll breakout forces on the strain gage are 5-6 pounds making it very difficult to hand fly smoothly. Range on the aircraft I flew was at best 8% less than what the cruise manual stated, which means compensatory payments because the Bombardier sales contract guarantees range +/- 5%. The Global could not have been certificated by the Atlanta Aircraft Certification Office (ACO) which certified the GV, because it does not have an Automatic Descent Mode or an automatic fuel heating system operating through the FADEC (to give fuel priority to the engines in an emergency), both of which were required on the GV because of it's endurance and altitude capabilities. The Global is a hand full in a crosswind and if you slow it down to do approaches to stalls you'll probably knock it off prior to the shaker because it feels like it's going to depart.

Other than that, it's a nice airplane.

GV






.

 

[hogdriver00]

Global

Is the GV fly by wire? If not, why.

 

[Gulfstream 200]

c'mon GVdriver will also tell you that the "Gulfstream" 200 is a reliable airplane!!! I almost choked on that one!!! That thing has to be the biggest piece of shhit ever made!!!

Yes, the Gulfsream reputation was created on the reliability of thier older models (GII-GIV) but they are all old now, and they better come up with something better than a G200 to carry into the new generation! Just renaming everything is not going to cut it! Living off the GIV legacy will only last SO long!

Falcon Capt is right, this guy is off his rocker when it comes to Gulfstream!!!!!

Is he a Gulfstream demo pilot??????...haha!

 

[empenage]

GVFlyer:

Hey what ever happened to Seagrums GV's? You know the ones that both broke on that trip to Spain? I heard that when they got them back to the U.S. they pushed them both out of the hangar and told Gulfstream to come get them.

I hear FL Aviation spends most of their time flushing hydraulic systems on their GV.

Oh, by the way, what is the serial number on the GV in PBI? I was at FlightSafety and got to walk around that one.....tongue depressers huh? They have to hold the right wing up with rail road ties!

I love this "tit-for-tat" stuff...so immature...so childish! Makes me feel young again. Just minutes ago I felt like it was time for the "dirt shower". You made my day.

Crosswinds? No problem.
Fuel recirc. ? No problem.
Hand flying? No problem......for all "our" pilots.

Geez.....Maybe ya need some dual?

 

[banned username 2]

Falcon Capt is right, this guy is off his rocker when it comes to Gulfstream!!!!!

Good Grief,

How did I get dragged into this one?!?!?!?!?!?!

 

[empenage]

Falcon Capt.

I wanted to suggest "Pistols at Dawn" and have you be the referee but it sounded too dramatic. It would add something to it though....dont ya think?

 

[banned username 2]

Falcon Capt.

I wanted to suggest "Pistols at Dawn" and have you be the referee but it sounded too dramatic. It would add something to it though....dont ya think?

Hahahaha....

Sounds like a plan!

 

[GVFlyer]

It would seem that you are getting a little emotional about what, to this point, had been an analytic discussion. Most of what you heard is is incorrect and probably the repetition of a received idea from Bombardier. They, of course, are known for their verite'. By the way, if your screen name is supposed to refer to an aircraft section "empennage" is spelled with two n's.

GVFlyer:

Hey what ever happened to Seagrums GV's? You know the ones that both broke on that trip to Spain? I heard that when they got them back to the U.S. they pushed them both out of the hangar and told Gulfstream to come get them.

Seagrams, of course, no longer has a flight department; it went away when Seagrams was purchased by Vivendi in June 2000. When the GV was first fielded five years ago, some GV operators had entry into service difficulties with the four Vickers hydraulic pumps on the aircraft. Many others did not. There is some contention that these problems were caused by local maintenance practices. When Vickers was unable to make a pump meeting Gulfstreams reliability standards regardless of environmetal conditions, Gulftream redesigned the hydraulic system to use the ABEX hydraulic pump. This pump has been the production standard for some while now and has been retrofitted to prior GV's at no charge.

I hear FL Aviation spends most of their time flushing hydraulic systems on their GV.

You heard wrong. Serial number 503 has ABEX pumps. Again what you are talking about is old news. It was an "entry into service" difficulty experienced by some operators probably as the result of maintenance practices. A "bullet proof" hydraulic pump for the GV was developed as a joint effort between Gulfstream engineers and ABEX and is now on all aircraft.

Oh, by the way, what is the serial number on the GV in PBI? I was at FlightSafety and got to walk around that one.....tongue depressers huh? They have to hold the right wing up with rail road ties!

Serial number 509. A determined pilot can wound any airplane. These guys had a couple of chances to get it right. Maintenance technicians had placed and not removed tongue depressors into the left and right weight-on-wheels switches. They did this to fool the airplane into thinking it was on the ground when the jet was on jacks and the struts were extended. These are large switches located on the rear of the main struts above the axles and are clearly visible on pre-flight. Pre-flight is where this episode should have ended, but it did not.

On take-off the landing gear handle could not be moved to the up position without pressing the lock release button. This is a pretty good indication that your airplane is not in the "air mode".

There was an Amber 'WOW Fault" message on the Engine Indicating and Crew Alerting System and associated Caution Warnings and tones. If one goes to the Quick Reference Handbook and opens it to the Amber Caution lights section the first step under "WOW Fault" is:

1. Select GND SPLR OFF/ARMED switch to OFF.

Not a whole lot of interpretation needed to figure out what's required here. If the pilots had of done this - pressed this one button- a normal landing would have resullted, but they did not.

As it was when they pulled the thrust levers to idle at 50 feet on approach the jet thought it was on the ground and six ground spoilers came up to 55 degrees. It is a testament to the strength of the GV that it was damaged no worse than it was. It takes 60 "g's " to drive the strut through the top of the wing.

Crosswinds? No problem.

You are the first Global pilot I've spoken to who has not complained about it's cross-wind capabilities.

Fuel recirc. ? No problem.

I don't know how effective the current fuel heating system is, the first one was a recirculation system that didn't work. What I said is that it has a manual on-off switch. The system does not run automaticaly throught the FADEC (as on the GV) and will not give fuel priority to the engine in an emergency.

Hand flying? No problem......for all "our" pilots.

Were you qualified at Pax River, Edwards, NTS or an aircraft manufacturer to evaluate aircraft handling qualities?

Geez.....Maybe ya need some dual?

Probably, I'd like the opportunity to fly another Global - let me know when you can arrange it.

You know, in the final analysis it's the market place that determines the value of an airplane or any product for that matter. The Global Express is a failed airplane, there will never be another one. I've known Pete Reynolds for many years, he's BBA's chief test pilot and he is saying that their efforts are now directed at the 5000 (if they can capitalize it). Gulfstream maintains three test articles, $141 million in aircraft, solely dedicated to GV/G550 development and product improvement. Gulfstream has just signed the contract for serial number 5045 which will be the 45th G550 and the 245th airplane sold in the GV series.

GV

 

[hogdriver00]

Fly by wire

GV,

You didn't answer my question.

Hog

 

[GVFlyer]

Re: Global

Is the GV fly by wire? If not, why. [/B]

No it is not. Additionaly, unlike the Global, the GV can be flown with a complete hydraulic failure.

The reason the GV is not fly-by-wire is because the customers didn't want it that way. The features suite for the GV was largely determined by the Customer Advisory Board. Other features presented to them, but turned down were auto-braking and autoland.

GV

 

[hogdriver00]

GV

The GV doesn't have Auto-braking? I didn't know that. That was a mistake like FBW in both A/C.

Your reply was a tactful way of answering the question. The customer doesn't always know best.

Hog

 

[GVFlyer]

c'mon GVdriver will also tell you that the "Gulfstream" 200 is a reliable airplane!!! I almost choked on that one!!! That thing has to be the biggest piece of shhit ever made!!!

You apparently still like the airplane enough to use it as a screen name...

Go back and look at my post. What I said was, "the G200 is a work in progress" and that current availibility rates do not meet Gulfstream's reliability standards of greater than 99%. I further said that Gulfstream was commited to improving the G200's reliability. Toward that end, the current availability as reported by NBAA and Gulfstream is over 98%.

Yes, the Gulfsream reputation was created on the reliability of thier older models (GII-GIV) but they are all old now, and they better come up with something better than a G200 to carry into the new generation! Just renaming everything is not going to cut it! Living off the GIV legacy will only last SO long!

The GIV/G400 is a current product. The 500th aircraft in the GIV series rolled off the production line last week. The G450 will be the next in the GIV series. It will have FADEC Rolls-Royce Tays and a common nose with the G500/G550. By the way, GV availability is also over 99%.

Falcon Capt is right, this guy is off his rocker when it comes to Gulfstream!!!!!

Is he a Gulfstream demo pilot??????...haha!

I can prove I'm not a Demo pilot, c'mon ask me a technical question.

GV

 

[Gulfstream 200]

Oh I do like the plane (G200), it flies very nice!
Just dont plan on getting home when you were scheduled to....
I dont mind having it as a screen name....

Im sure the program has improved. It better have. Bottom line it IS a terribly unreliable airplane (unlike any other G product!!) I would love to know just how they came up with 98%......I know of more than a few (5 maybe) they went back for a complete refund and traded in on G4s or G5s! Good sales tactic I guess...I just feel bad for all the tech reps who had to take this beast over from Galaxy/IAI. But again, this was a little while back and Im sure it has improved dramatically (?)

I cant help but imagine the experience NetJets will have with it. That will be a good test I suppose.

I am very impressed with your G knowledge you should sell them! I bet it is a nice airplane to fly. (I never have!)

FalconCapt, didnt mean to drag you in at all, I do get a kick out of your guys Falcon/Gulfstream bickering! Its a good laugh!

 

[empenage]

GVFlyer:

Actually "empennage" was taken...I just shortened it and I spoke with Tommy last week, FL's Chief of Maintenance, and he is still having problems with thier GV hydraulic systems.

Have I ever told you how much I love those leading edge slats on the Global? We had a V1 speed of 88kts and a landing Vref of 98 kts. the other night. It's just so cool!!

Empenage....with just 1 "n".