Flying the EMB-170

[On Your Six]

I saw quite a few MidAtlantic E170s on my last tour through the East Coast. The airplane is growing on me in terms of looks. Frustrating to hear about the low salary you guys are paid, but would any of you like to share your impressions about the aircraft? How does it compare with YOUR FORMER AIRCRAFT at USAirways in terms of flight deck comfort (can you sit it in for 2+ hours), aircraft performance, technology, etc.?

Looks like a nice aircraft and I know we will be seeing a lot more of them in the near future....

 

[ATR-DRIVR]

Took off from ATL a bit ago and had one behind me out of Ramp 5. Gnd was hammering at him to close up behind us and he said 'we can't get to close or it will mess up our 7&*&**^( something or other'. Turned the corner to 8r and he was 3 or 4 spots back just crawling. Took off behind us and told Dep they had to return emergency because of some 'engine anomoly' but sure wanted the equipment standing by.

 

[On Your Six]

I have heard that they have been having some typical teething problems... That's to be expected. Looks like a nice aircraft to fly, though. Any thoughts out there?

 

[satpak77]

ALPA rag this month....

did an article on them. Sounds like the ALPA guys who flew it liked it. I think the very first sentence in the article was "This is a big airplane." (ending with a period)

some hidden agenda behind that?

later

 

[LittleDeuce]

Erj-170

The 170 is a dream to fly. Very stable and very easy to fly.
Passenger acceptance is also very high. It's a comfortable ride.

It also has,Fly by Wire, EFIS, and a Flight Path Vector, and acceleration cue.
Hot stuff. and it IS a big airplane.

 

[Steve 737]

Heard it had old fashioned cables connecting the yoke to the ailerons. Anybody know why they did that ?

 

[LearLove]

I haven't flown it yet but am currently in the MDA/E-170 schoolhouse.

All the MDA/U instructors have been awsome and the training is just fine eventhough the info changes as we sit in class. Everyone I've met at MDA has been very friendly and professional towards us WO guys.

They tell us in class that the "teething problems" are getting better but as one thing is solved another pops up.
Last week when I got my Jepps they had Manchester UK instead of Manchester, NH.

The past few week commuting back and forth from training I've had the chance to talk with pax about the 170. Haven't received anything bad from a pax POV.

One thing that kind of weird is that the aircraft actually teaches itself. IE its programed to look at its own performance and optimze its strengths and so forth. Also the cockpit it designed as a "dark cockpit" concept. As long as there are no lights showing its good to go. Also the swithches are not turned ON or OFF but rather AUTO or INHIBIT. Basicaly like the lights everything in AUTO and your good to go (except the trick with the HYD pumps). Compared to the Dash its a very diff airplane. The instructors tell us its 3 generations ahead of the airbus (that not from my mouth, just what we are told).

Anyway, back to the books or computer (CBT).

Ask me again in a few months, I should be on line by late Sept.

 

[LearLove]

Heard it had old fashioned cables connecting the yoke to the ailerons. Anybody know why they did that ?

Yes and No. This is from the E-170 aircraft manual. I love this CBT training, no big manuals to lug around, although they gave them to us.

[font=Helvetica,BoldItalic][font=Helvetica,Bold]

EMB - 170/175 DivisionEMB - 170/175 Vol II​

[/font]06/18/2003[font=Helvetica,Bold]Flight Controls[/font][font=Helvetica,Bold]8-1[/font][font=Helvetica,Bold]Introduction[/font][font=Helvetica,BoldItalic]Chapter 8: Flight Controls[/font][font=Helvetica,Bold]8.1 Introduction[/font][font=Helvetica,Bold]8.1.1 General. [/font]The Flight Control System is comprised of the primary and the secondary flight control systems and their associated system components. The primary flight control system consists of:​

•Ailerons and the multi-function spoilers for roll axis control ​

•Elevators for pitch axis control​

•Rudder for yaw axis control ​

​

The secondary flight control system consist of: ​

•Horizontal stabilizer •Flaps and Slats •The multi-function spoiler (when used as speed brakes or ground spoilers) •Dedicated ground spoilers Hydraulic actuators control the respective flight control surfaces. These are generally referred to as Power Control Units (PCUs). ​

​

The ailerons are driven by conventional control cables that run from each control wheel back to a pair of hydro-mechanical actuators. ​

​

Elevators, rudders and roll spoilers as well as all secondary flight control systems, including the horizontal stabilizer, flaps and slats, ground spoilers and speed brakes, are controlled electronically using Fly-by-Wire (FBW) technology. The primary flight control electronics are generally comprised of two complementary parts: •The Primary Actuator Control Electronics (P-ACE) •The Flight Control Module (FCM) Primary Actuator Control Electronics (P-ACE) and/or Flight Control Modules (FCM) are employed to operate the respective electrohydraulic or electro-mechanical actuators. ​

[/font]

[font=Helvetica,BoldItalic][/font]​

[font=Helvetica,BoldItalic][/font]​

​

 

[lowecur]

Since the 170 will go to FL 350 in 16 minutes & the 190 in 15 minutes, how does this compare with the Boeing and Airbus families? The four flights I have been on, the climb out seemed much stronger than either Boeing or Airbus. Of course it could just be my bias.

 

[8vATE]

Compared to the Dash its a very diff airplane. The instructors tell us its 3 generations ahead of the airbus (that not from my mouth, just what we are told).

Good to hear of your positive experience so far... being former ALG (6 yrs) and furloughed USAirways ... I wish all the WO guys the best over at MidAtlantic..

From the VERY little I know about the EMB170... I am sure that there are several generational improvements on the EMB that the A320 won't have... After all.. The EMB is a year 2000 airplane and the A320 is a mid 1980s airplane...

But from what I read... the control law logic of the EMB is an alpha control law "looking at AOA".... the A320 has C* logic (with autotrim) looking at maintaining 1G with multiple "hard" protections in bank,g,alpha,speed and autothrust...And backing up Normal Control Law is Alternate Law then Direct Law. So I would make an observation that while the EMB may be generations ahead of the Airbus in some ways... I believe it has a lower, simpler level design of control laws ........

The best thing about the EMB seems to be the cabin/range/efficiency of the design.... I think we'll be seeing a lot of EMB 170/190s in the future....

Good luck!

 

[stb]

It still has that...

Embrer control yoke.

RJ's exhaust are in direct line to the AOA sensors, if the exhaust hits the sensors at the right spot for the right time, the AOA Fault on the EICAS appears. Power down power up is the current fix.

The ATL flight had a FADEC problem. Returned to airport.

 

[AFELLOWAVIATOR]

You people kill me. Instead of bragging about the airplane you should all be moaning about how you took it up your collective arses to fly it.


You sound like a bunch of abused women getting together for coffee talking about how wonderful your husbands are. "Well, my new car he bought me is soooo awesome, although be beat the shiiat out of me before he gave it to me"..I deserved it, the beating AND the car.

Grow some back bone. That airplane should be paying twice what your getting.

Pathetic, just pathetic...................

 

[Ty Webb]

Gimme a break. A CRJ pilot slamming guys flying E170's. I'm sure the guys in the Metroliner said the same thing about you. If they didn't, the Brasilia guys sure did.

Look up "irony" in the dictionary.

P.S. They asked him how it flew, not how it made you feel. Save it for Oprah.

 

[usav8r]

Here, Here, I'll second that one Ty.....

 

[AFELLOWAVIATOR]

OK, not twice as much, but you get the point. I still stand by the rest of the statement. And you know I'm right. Do we need to get into the fact that our "RJ" drivers make more >>>????? Our 50 seat RJ pilots that is.

I quess you will dispute that also.

 

[AFELLOWAVIATOR]

Gimme a break. A CRJ pilot slamming guys flying E170's. I'm sure the guys in the Metroliner said the same thing about you. If they didn't, the Brasilia guys sure did.

Look up "irony" in the dictionary.

P.S. They asked him how it flew, not how it made you feel. Save it for Oprah.

What does me being an "CRJ Pilot" have to do with commenting on flying a E170 Regional jet?? Kinda lost me on that one.

 

[~~~^~~~]

Gimme a break. A CRJ pilot slamming guys flying E170's. I'm sure the guys in the Metroliner said the same thing about you. If they didn't, the Brasilia guys sure did.

Look up "irony" in the dictionary.

P.S. They asked him how it flew, not how it made you feel. Save it for Oprah.

Ty : I usually agree with you, but when the Captain on the E170 accepted pay that is $6 an hour less than the 4 year guy in the ATR beside him on the ramp, while his union is trying to divert jobs to the pilots that under bid the work, it is a problem for the RJ guys.....

It is not a "my equipment is better than your equipment" arguement, or a "my paycheck is better than yours debate." It is a problem when our union consires with the Company to create alter ego airlines and divert work to its preferred members for less money. That sort of thing destroys the profession no matter what you fly.

I really like Airtran. Another thing to like is that you guys do not have "the Pilots' union" on your property.

~~~^~~~

 

[Ty Webb]

I don't have a dog in this fight, so I'll have to leave it to those that do . . . . the thing I was objecting to was that the subject was :how do you like flying it", not "what do you think of the decision to . . . . .".

PS. . . . "in-house unions" can be infuriating sometimes, too!

 

[-9Capt]

"in-house unions can be infuriating sometimes, too"

You got that right!

 

[Skyboss]

Grow some back bone. That airplane should be paying twice what your getting.

Pathetic, just pathetic...................

If it did, it wouldn't be profitable.