Flying job w/ federal conviction?

[CookieMonster]

Anyone heard of someone able to get a flying job in the civilain world after getting a federal conviction thru court martial in the military? A bud is going thru a frat case, and is interested in flying for anyone when he gets out. Pipe dream, or realistic? Thx.

 

[instructordude]

I have similar questions also but they are more along the lines of experimental marijuana use. I have tried it maybe 60-70 times. Will this eliminate my chances of a pilot slot in ROTC?? I haven't told the Capt yet but am looking for some advice like your friend is cookie monster.

 

[Fury220]

:chuckle:

 

[Floyd R. Turbo]

Well, Kelly Flynn's flying somewhere..... Can your friend play the "System Screwed ME!" card?

Is he fighting it? Take the Article 15 and press on.

 

[instructordude]

Well, Kelly Flynn's flying somewhere..... Can your friend play the "System Screwed ME!" card?

Is he fighting it? Take the Article 15 and press on.

I think my dad got the Article 15 while he was in the service. In fact he said he got an Article 30. He said if you get two Article 15's they just combine it and call it a Article 30.???? Not sure what it means??

 

[TankerDriver]

I think my dad got the Article 15 while he was in the service. In fact he said he got an Article 30. He said if you get two Article 15's they just combine it and call it a Article 30.???? Not sure what it means??

Um... no.

 

[TankerDriver]

Anyone heard of someone able to get a flying job in the civilain world after getting a federal conviction thru court martial in the military? A bud is going thru a frat case, and is interested in flying for anyone when he gets out. Pipe dream, or realistic? Thx.

I'm sure there's a company out there willing to hire someone with a conviction. Fraternization? There are worse things out there to be court martial'd for, but it still shows that he can't follow the rules. It's supply and demand and right now the supply pretty much exceeds demand. Why should they hire someone who can't follow the rules when they've got 10 guys in line behind him that can? He'll have to have a lot of other things going for him. Being in the military looks good on a resume until you throw a court martial under it.

 

[Occam's Razor]

Anyone heard of someone able to get a flying job in the civilain world after getting a federal conviction thru court martial in the military? A bud is going thru a frat case, and is interested in flying for anyone when he gets out. Pipe dream, or realistic? Thx.

Woo...I've got a few here!

When the post 9/11 background checks were done, a few pilots who'd been convicted under UCMJ were allowed to keep their jobs. I don't quite understand it, but it was explained to me that the conviction isn't the "gotcha" in the civilian world, but the punishment is. An officer who is Dismissed (a very specific military term) from the service is a "felon" under the legal definition. Any punishment short of Dismissal is considered a "misdemeanor".

A 2ndLt in my battalion was convicted under UCMJ for something that would have been a felony in town, but was not Dismissed. He is a cardiologist now in Ohio, and (I love this part!) the mayor of his town!

 

[MalteseX]

Anyone heard of someone able to get a flying job in the civilain world after getting a federal conviction thru court martial in the military? A bud is going thru a frat case, and is interested in flying for anyone when he gets out. Pipe dream, or realistic? Thx.

Yes....there are several guys who are flying

Pipe dream or realistic? Depends on how hard he wants to fight for a flying job.... it "ain't" gonna drop in his lap (if convicted).

I know of at least 6 people who were convicted for Fraternization by court martial and are flying. But I also know of 5 others who have not been able to find jobs.

Have your friend plea to take an Article 15. That will not be a federal conviction. I know of many, many guys who are flying with Art 15s in their past. In fact, I usually recommend guys if to airlines if the Art 15 was an isolated incident, etc. Also, an Article 15 will not show up on a background check, but an employer can find out when checking with references and guys who know him (it's a small world). So be up front on the application if it asks.

Life will be much harder if convicted by Court Martial. It's not impossible to get hired however. It just becomes much tougher.

Of course if there are other factors in your bud's case---lying, covering up the frat, disobeying an order, etc. then the flying opportunities get much smaller. (ie no majors or regionals will be a player--now we're talking shady ops flying cargo out of the islands; for 10 bucks an hour)

Frat cases are easiest to explain, and get hired from (especially if he marries the gal in question). I know of one guy who was asked in an interview with a contract pilot firm who provides pilots for JAL---

Crusty Interviewer: So, you have an Art 15 for fraternization... What happened?

Ex military interviewe. I started dating a girl who I later found out was enlisted, I didn't know at first, but I still kept seeing her after I knew... that's what led to my Article 15.

Crusty Interviewer: Was she hot?

Ex Military Interviewee: Yes sir, very.

He was hired and now is a 747 Capt flying out of HNL for JALWays. At least as of a couple of years ago.

Bottom Line : It can happen, but it is very difficult. An Art 15 for Frat can be overcome, but a federal conviction by court martial may not be.

P.S. The TSA rules for felony convictions prohibiting people from airline employment DO NOT include fraternization --- so even though you have a felony conviction, you are not barred by the TSA. Of course, they are the TSA and do not know or follow their own rules.