Flying IFR

[tathepilot]

This is the problem with many of the CFII's that I have come across in this industry, they will not get their students much actual instrument time. Why? Probably because they do not have much time in the soup themselves and the confidence level is not where it needs to be at to be taking their students up in it. It is quite sad that one can actually obtain the instrument rating with all time being in "simulated" conditions versus gaining the actual real life experience in the real imc. I would not throw your money away with those fly by day outfits, go find a good & experienced CFII and get some actual instrument time until you feel comfortable. I can not recall the amount of PM's I have gotten by II's asking this same very question. If you are a CFII then you should be comfortable enough in the soup to be able to get your students up in it.

money much better spent if you ask me.


3 5 0

I second that !!!

 

[tathepilot]

I have not flown in a cloud or under VIS of about 5 miles ever sense I got my IFR in DEC. The other day I was out and about in the Comanche and wanted to go into the LA Basin. But IFR like always. Just a OVC layer at 020-030 1,000 ft thick with 10sm vis under it. I thought about going but my Dad and my Brother were with me and I didnt want to kill us all.
What are the best places to go to get good at the scan and just flying IFR. I dont think I want to do it at my FBO. I would like to go with someone that flys the stuff all the time. Does anyone know of any schools that do a IPC program that I can do in my plane. I know of a few but does anyone know of the good places.
I found www.dsflight.com that looks like it would be fun. Anything will Help thanks and fly safe, Tony

Well, you can come to ny..
It has been ifr (imc) for the past two weeks.


KFRG 281236Z 15007KT 2SM +TSRA BR OVC003 15/15 A2962 RMK AO2 LTG DSNT N AND E TSB09 P0033

 

[Mmmmmm Burritos]

Burritos, how did your student rack up 15-20 hours of actual?

We did all our X/C's in actual and most of the approaches. We just had a few weeks of crummy weather and went up in it every time.

And it's not stretching the rules, that was real in the cloud time. It was more like 15 hrs actual too. It all adds up bit by bit.

 

[Lead Sled]

For what it's worth, I made Weather Flying by Robert Buck and Instrument Flying by Richard Taylor mandatory reading for all of my instrument students after they have passed their checkride. They aren't the typical ground school textbooks; in fact, they contain little, if any, weather or instrument flying theory. Weather Flying discusses how to fly weather in the real world and Instrument Flying discusses how to fly the various instrument procedures in the real world. They are easy and enjoyable reads.

Most people, after getting their instrument rating, still have little or no idea how to safely use it. It can be pretty intimidating getting the first real IFR experience. Reading these books will go a very long way towards converting all of that theoretical knowledge that you learned in ground school and flight training to practical use. I've always felt that it would take several hundred hours of actual IFR experience to gain the practical knowledge and insight that these authors have put in these books.

I recommend them highly.

Lead Sled

 

[johnpeace]

wtf?

As a private pilot who is looking forward to instrument training (and instrument flying, and instrument instructing)...

What is wrong with the way we teach flying that 'Most people, after getting their instrument rating, still have little or no idea how to safely use it.'

I believe this is probably true. When I talk to instrument rated pilots, they almost always express a reluctance to fly in clouds.

That, to me, sounds like something is wrong...

 

[350DRIVER]

I believe this is probably true. When I talk to instrument rated pilots, they almost always express a reluctance to fly in clouds.

What is even worse is when you talk to some CFII's and they won't launch into IMC with students unless they can break out at around 3000agl as a safety barrier, so much for hard imc time.


go figure..

Once again, they probably had very little if any actual when they were obtaining the instrument and/or CFII. The trend needs to be reversed to better enchance the safety factor.

3 5 0

 

[ThomasR]

IMC

You have already proven you can do it. So, just do it. What you are afraid of is staying oriented and being committed to changing needles and digits, the actual flying part is easy. Go VFR on Top to practice routing.

 

[BeachBum]

'Most people, after getting their instrument rating, still have little or no idea how to safely use it.'

One thing I did and I recommend is to hit up some good IMC conditions as much as possible after getting your instrument ticket. And don't limit yourself. If the weather is within IFR limits and not unsafe (i.e. thunderstorms), fly in it. I think a lot of people decide right after they get rated that they'll start off by limting themsleves to some standard weather conditions, like 2 miles vis and 800ft cieling for example, and then end up never feeling safe enough to exceed those limits. That's complete BS.

Another recommendation I have is to do you're training in the least technologically advanced plane possible. Two VOR receivers, a glideslope, and maybe an ADF, ought to serve you just fine. Don't go for some fancy flatscreen doohickeys that show your plane on a sectional chart or something like that. Then you'll never learn how to navigate. You'll just learn to push buttons and program the GPS. I think these big color moving map units are a crutch to a lot of instrument students.

 

[Lead Sled]

This thread raises some very significant points. It must be understood that merely possing a license or rating doesn't imply a high level of competence or skill, but rather it signifies that one has met some arbitrary minimum level of knowledge, experience and skill. As a wise man once said, "it's just a license to learn."

There was a time when things like weather flying, radar usage, etc. were passed down from senior, gray haired captain to "green" inexperienced copilots. Nowadays, many of us don't have that opportunity - we get our ratings and suddenly find ourselves in the left seat of a light airplane looking out the window and seeing our first real view of the inside of a cloud. At that point, you come to realize just how ill prepared you really are to be where you are.

How you you handle it? First, you should do is establish, in advance, your personal minimums and limitations. All pilots, from the newest private pilot to a senior 747 captain, have personal limitations and minimums. Establish comfortable personal limitations for visibility, ceilings, crosswinds, etc. and never exceed them while under the pressure of needing to complete a flight. In the beginning your personal limitations and minimums will be significantly higher than is legally required by the FARs. You will probably be able to modify them as your experience and skills increase. Just don't be in a big rush to expand your personal minimums - it happens over time.

Always have a "Plan B" and a "Plan C". There's an old saying in aviation that says accidents occur when the pilot runs out of altitude, airspeed, and ideas at the same time. Always have a realistic, legitimate and viable backup plan and always have a realistic, legitimate and viable backup plan to your backup plan. (It sounds redundant, but it's not.) On a clear day, your backup plans might be simply, "We'll go to this airport and land and if that won't work we can go to that airport and land." On those days when the weather or fuel are real issues your backup plans become very critical. What will you do if the visibility or ceiling falls below your personal minimums? Where will you go? What airports are nearby? The 2nd backup plan (Plan C) is used to get you safely on the ground when your original plans have gone "south". It keeps you from getting in the dangerous position of having to make up the rules as you go. That's the way many pilots have gotten themselves into serious trouble. Always have two workable and realistic alternative plans. When things get tough, the peace of mind they provide is priceless.

Like I said, get those books I mentioned. Read them through - cover to cover - two or three times, then go out there and carefully "stick your toe in the water". Leave yourself a way out.

Lead Sled

 

[labbats]

Those are two of the three best aviation books I have read. The third is "Fate is the Hunter".

I can't remember which one said it, but I always think of one author saying that he had everything planned out as a First Officer for the flight, and was speaking with the Captain before takeoff. The captain looked over all his hard work and asked one question... "where's our out?" or something to that effect. The First Officer had done all this work and forgotten the most important factor. He didn't know which way to turn, climb, or descend in the face of danger. That's a great lesson.