Flying for the airlines in the 1970's & 80's

[country]

I changed careers several years ago and have a good Corp gig that I'm very happy with....lucky. Born in the early 60's so I'm old enough to know that I don't know that much. Just curious about how the airline industry was (Regional and National) in the 70's and early 80's regarding pay, training, ugrades, benefits etc. Was the entry level pay always terrible? If things have changed then how and what caused the change? I had a young pilot getting ready to go interview with some of the regionals ask me these questions the other day and honestly could not begin to answer them.

A little history from the folks who began there careers in that time period would be appreciated. Please don't respond unless you flew during these times and and currently flying today or have recently retired. I really would like to know for myself and the upcoming group. thx.

 

[AA717driver]

I started at a small commuter in 1986. Not many commuters before the early '80's. PBA, Britt, Comair... I started at $800/mo. for the first couple of months then it "jumped" up to $1,000/mo.

Second commuter flying SD360's paid $1250/mo. I upgraded 6 months into that and made $2050/mo. Stayed there a year and things started getting weird so I jumped to Air Wisconsin (11/87-12/88) and made $1800/mo. Second year FO pay on the F-27 was $33/hr. Not bad.

Went to TWA after that and made $20k my first year as an L1011 FE.

Hope that helps.TC

 

[WhiteCloud]

AA717driver's bio sounds pretty typical. A general reasonable expectation in the late 70's early 80's was that you could get a Commercial ME and CFI (not necessarily CFII/MEI)and teach for a couple hundred hours and then be well qualified to work at a "commuter" or King Air or piston twin job. Do that for another 6 months or so and you were qualified for a "major". That all changed around 1986-7 with Pan Am and Eastern dumping lots of really qualifed jet pilots on the market. During that period I worked for 5 separate "commuter" airlines while remaining under the same roof. They didn't even bother changing paint jobs then. Pay was low for even then. I recall my first tax filing was around $7500/year in 1981. I mowed a lot of lawns on the side to make ends meet.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

So....nothing has really changed. The entry aircraft are now RJ's and not Shorts and Merlins

 

[SSDD]

I hope more people pay attention to this thread. One of the things that I see now days if that pilots are trying to recreate an era that really never existed. They want to be jet captains and make $100,000 in two or three years.

That never happened at the regionals, not even at the "nationals." The majors had their glory days from the late 60's to the early 80's, but other than that the going was tough.

Nor sure where this nostagia for a time that never was has come from.

 

[satpak77]

Nor sure where this nostagia for a time that never was has come from.

That would be the Kit Darby propaganda machine

 

[xdays]

In the late 60's, early 70's there were a few commuters around, with the best equipment being the B-99 or Twin Otter. Starting pay was $350 per month at Executive Airlines in Florida, and about the same at Altair Airlines in PHL. In 1970 I flew a Beech 18 out of TPA for $15/ flight hour and usually flew 100 - 120 each month doing government contract work. I was hired at DAL in 1977 where we were paid $650/mo while in training ( you pay for your own living expenses). After training you received the princely sum of $800/mo for the first 6 months, and $900/mo for the next 6 months. At the time, we were also FE's for 4 to 6 years, depending on where you were based. The trips were mostly 2 on 3 off or 3 on 4 off, with quite a few turnarounds. On the downside, it was the era of the Early Birds and Owly Birds, so we did do a lot of back side of the clock flying. All in all, it was the best job in the world, and it disgusts me to see where we have gone.

 

[country]

Thx for your replies. I just feel it is very important for the current crop of pilots and the up and coming group to have a clear understanding of what the industry was like as compared to now. Given the knowledge of how things were in the past will hopefully help shape things for the future in a positive way. I'm curious is there any one common denominator that stands out from then to now on how things got to were they are today?(deregulation,union,management,economy,pilots,etc.)

The perspective from pilots that have been in this business for a while is a valuble tool and should be used for all its worth to help change the current condition. I have to many good freinds struggling at 121 flying. Would be nice to see a change.

thx for your response.

 

[3BCat]

Starting pay at my first commuter airline in 1984; $1250/mo. flying the right seat of a Navajo Chieftain. The Bandeirante paid $1400/mo. No Per Diem. This was better than some of the other operators.

The airplanes were unpressurized, had no autopilot, and no sophisticated radio equipment. We didn't have HSI's. Just peanut gyros, windshield wiper VOR/ILS, and a coffee grinder ADF. No commonality between aircraft of the same type. Some aircraft didn't have radar, only a stormscope.

We'd haul people to ORD, and MSP, DTW, CLE, CVG, MCI... The company used ground handlers from several of the major airlines at the large cities. The Pilots that worked for these carriers were great. They would offer us coffee, encouragement, and advice. I actually kind of liked getting fogged in just to "rub elbows" with the guys I more or less idolized.


One of my favorite memories is of the Ozark Captain who told me to follow him out to the runway one foggy day. We did, and after a lengthy runup of his DC-9-10, he blasted off. The RVR broke just enough for us to get on our way.

 

[inline]

Flying was less complicated, and in some aspects, less safe. Didn't have TCAS, didn't have GPS ( although some airlines still use the vor system exclusively, but that's not unsafe) some had Loran. Deicing was simple, no 2 inch thick manuals to consult, no holdover times, etc. you just deiced ( you didn't have a clue what type it was or what it did) and flew. And the best part, you usually had HOT meals.

 

[AA717driver]

xdays makes an excellent point. In the 60's and 70's, major airline pilots didn't make squat for the first few years. There wasn't a "B-scale" but pay certainly didn't take a huge jump in year 2.

Widebody or 707 Int'l FO's made pretty good money but it was mostly reserved for the Captains. And there were few 5 year captains in those days (the early 60's hires excepted). TC

 

[mobie]

I think I can shed some light as my DOH was 8/65. First 6 months pay was $400 pm. Jumped all the way to $450 the next 6 months. The next year $1000 pm.

5 years to left seat and never laid off or bumped back a seat. Great luck until I lost my retirement after 38 years. Now still out there punching holes in the sky 135/91. It was a great ride while it lasted, let me know where some of those Gulfstream jobs are so I can ride the high tide again.

 

[pilotyip]

College degrees were not a big thing back then, my PPC I flew with in Vietnam was a Nav Cad, 2 yrs of college and he was was hired by Delta basically on a walk up interview back in 1968. Of course UAL was hiring Private pilots with 250 hrs back then also.

 

[VMA214]

"my DOH was 8/65."......."I lost my retirement after 38 years. Now still out there punching holes in the sky 135/91."


If that does'nt say it all, I don't know what does. Show that qoute to people wanting to get into this business.

 

[PHXFLYR]

"my DOH was 8/65."......."I lost my retirement after 38 years. Now still out there punching holes in the sky 135/91."


If that does'nt say it all, I don't know what does. Show that qoute to people wanting to get into this business.

I did. And my cousins kid STILL wants to do this for a living Go Figure!!

PHXFLYR

 

[C-150ETOPS]

For an accurate comparison of pay in a given year, plug in the numbers here:

http://woodrow.mpls.frb.fed.us/Research/data/us/calc/index.cfm

mobie,

Your second year pay of $1000/mth in '65 would be worth $6177/mth today. My second year pay at AA would be worth about $3500/mth today.


At my company, it was pretty common during negotiations for guys to screw up the COLA numbers when making salary comparisons. I always ran across (and will in the future), senior guys who think they "scraped" by on some pay level back in the late 60's. One guy, in justifying our continued B-Scale by telling me how much rougher it was back then on his pay. His 3rd year in todays dollars would be $100,000. His $17K in 1966 did sound bad unless one knew the facts like I did.


good luck mobie, I know guys like you have eaten the ultimate chit sandwich.

 

[CaptainPablo]

Some comparisons....

I think I can shed some light as my DOH was 8/65. First 6 months pay was $400 pm. Jumped all the way to $450 the next 6 months. The next year $1000 pm.

450 bucks a month doesn't sound so much, but just some numbers for you: price my parents paid for their first home in Chicago in 1966, was 25,000. (about an average price then in Chicago) price that same house just sold for? 525,000 !!!

so your 450 bucks a month X 12, for an annual salary of: 5400.00 Using your annual salary of 5400, that comes out to about 1/5th of what that house would have been worth in those days, easily affordable on your salary in 1965. well, let's use today's figures, shall we? 525,000 / 1/5th (or 20%) would be: 105,000 !!!! so when all the old timers start throwing out these numbers like 400 bucks a month, wow was i underpaid....well 450 bucks a month could easily afford a 4 bedroom house in a nice neighborhood in chicago in 1965. ask your average first year F.O. if he can buy a 525,000 house.

 

[VVJM265]

For an accurate comparison of pay in a given year, plug in the numbers here:

http://woodrow.mpls.frb.fed.us/Research/data/us/calc/index.cfm

Good site. Thanks for posting.

 

[B-J-J Fighter]

Bump for later reading.