Flying Cheap

[weasel_lips]

If anyone missed the PBS special you can watch it here....

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/flyingcheap/


Makes you wonder why ANYONE would enter this career.

 

[pilotyip]

This decent career

Because it is still a great career, maybe not as good as it as used to be.
If you fly because you like to, are willing to take any job any where in the country that builds toward your next job. You will be successful in your career chioce. You need to be able to go through the paying your dues phase. It is hard, it is lots of moves, you go where the next job is, it is living in flop houses with 4 other pilots and one bathroom down the hall, it not buying any new underwear for one year, it is driving a car that you jump start from the battery you keep in the apt on a charger, it is being 100% subservient to your bosses wishes until you can move to your next job and he gives you a good recommendation. It is saying no to your brother’s birthday party, it is saying no to being home at Christmas. Come to think about it, this sounds alot like being in the Navy, except for the underwear part. They made us get new stuff. You need a talent for flying, you need a most gracious personality that focuses on what you can give and not what you can take, and a goal in sight that you will pursue no matter what. It will take up to 10 years to get to a career position. Family, girl fiends (more than one night), babies, do not count, they only get in the way. They will side track your career. I have had more than one flight student, older guys starting flying in their late 40's early 50's, tell me they wished they had it all to do over again, they would gone into flying as soon as they could of and stuck to it, but Suzy wanted the house, and the family lifestyle, and they thought there would be time later, but once the commitments come and you elect to honor them, there is no later. This line of thought will probably bring out some different views, because it so politically incorrect. But I am semi management in a bottom feeder industry, so what would I know about an aviation career. However, you ask, so here is my input from the prospective of 40 years in this business. The job comes first until you reach a career position.

 

[CX880]

Because it is still a great career, maybe not as good as it as used to be.
If you fly because you like to, are willing to take any job any where in the country that builds toward your next job. You will be successful in your career chioce. You need to be able to go through the paying your dues phase. It is hard, it is lots of moves, you go where the next job is, it is living in flop houses with 4 other pilots and one bathroom down the hall, it not buying any new underwear for one year, it is driving a car that you jump start from the battery you keep in the apt on a charger, it is being 100% subservient to your bosses wishes until you can move to your next job and he gives you a good recommendation. It is saying no to your brother’s birthday party, it is saying no to being home at Christmas. Come to think about it, this sounds alot like being in the Navy, except for the underwear part. They made us get new stuff. You need a talent for flying, you need a most gracious personality that focuses on what you can give and not what you can take, and a goal in sight that you will pursue no matter what. It will take up to 10 years to get to a career position. Family, girl fiends (more than one night), babies, do not count, they only get in the way. They will side track your career. I have had more than one flight student, older guys starting flying in their late 40's early 50's, tell me they wished they had it all to do over again, they would gone into flying as soon as they could of and stuck to it, but Suzy wanted the house, and the family lifestyle, and they thought there would be time later, but once the commitments come and you elect to honor them, there is no later. This line of thought will probably bring out some different views, because it so politically incorrect. But I am semi management in a bottom feeder industry, so what would I know about an aviation career. However, you ask, so here is my input from the prospective of 40 years in this business. The job comes first until you reach a career position.

Sounds like an idiots job. there is more to life than flying a plane. Stay in school kids and pick a real "career" not a hobby where life takes second prioirty.

 

[Quack]

Because it is still a great career, maybe not as good as it as used to be.
If you fly because you like to, are willing to take any job any where in the country that builds toward your next job. You will be successful in your career chioce. You need to be able to go through the paying your dues phase. It is hard, it is lots of moves, you go where the next job is, it is living in flop houses with 4 other pilots and one bathroom down the hall, it not buying any new underwear for one year, it is driving a car that you jump start from the battery you keep in the apt on a charger, it is being 100% subservient to your bosses wishes until you can move to your next job and he gives you a good recommendation. It is saying no to your brother’s birthday party, it is saying no to being home at Christmas. Come to think about it, this sounds alot like being in the Navy, except for the underwear part. They made us get new stuff. You need a talent for flying, you need a most gracious personality that focuses on what you can give and not what you can take, and a goal in sight that you will pursue no matter what. It will take up to 10 years to get to a career position. Family, girl fiends (more than one night), babies, do not count, they only get in the way. They will side track your career. I have had more than one flight student, older guys starting flying in their late 40's early 50's, tell me they wished they had it all to do over again, they would gone into flying as soon as they could of and stuck to it, but Suzy wanted the house, and the family lifestyle, and they thought there would be time later, but once the commitments come and you elect to honor them, there is no later. This line of thought will probably bring out some different views, because it so politically incorrect. But I am semi management in a bottom feeder industry, so what would I know about an aviation career. However, you ask, so here is my input from the prospective of 40 years in this business. The job comes first until you reach a career position.

I'm guessing you have no life then...have you ever worked at the regionals before?

 

[pilotyip]

been there, done that

I'm guessing you have no life then...have you ever worked at the regionals before?

sure did, loved it, flying the mighty DHC-6 Twin Otter, but the pay was not very good had to move on. Heck I'd be happy flying a DC-3 if I could make a living at it.

Sounds like an idiots job. there is more to life than flying a plane. Stay in school kids and pick a real "career" not a hobby where life takes second prioirty.

Yes if you did not like the job it would an idiots career, but having worked outside of flying for a number of years, I missed being around airplanes

 

[DC8Driver]

sure did, loved it, flying the mighty DHC-6 Twin Otter, but the pay was not very good had to move on. Heck I'd be happy flying a DC-3 if I could make a living at it.
Yes if you did not like the job it would an idiots career, but having worked outside of flying for a number of years, I missed being around airplanes

If you got into this career because you love airplanes and flying. Your good.

If you got into this career to get rich and your not already at FEDEX or big brown,........Not so good. LOL

 

[Captain Morgan]

Because it is still a great career, maybe not as good as it as used to be.
If you fly because you like to, are willing to take any job any where in the country that builds toward your next job. You will be successful in your career chioce. You need to be able to go through the paying your dues phase. It is hard, it is lots of moves, you go where the next job is, it is living in flop houses with 4 other pilots and one bathroom down the hall, it not buying any new underwear for one year, it is driving a car that you jump start from the battery you keep in the apt on a charger, it is being 100% subservient to your bosses wishes until you can move to your next job and he gives you a good recommendation. It is saying no to your brother’s birthday party, it is saying no to being home at Christmas. Come to think about it, this sounds alot like being in the Navy, except for the underwear part. They made us get new stuff. You need a talent for flying, you need a most gracious personality that focuses on what you can give and not what you can take, and a goal in sight that you will pursue no matter what. It will take up to 10 years to get to a career position. Family, girl fiends (more than one night), babies, do not count, they only get in the way. They will side track your career. I have had more than one flight student, older guys starting flying in their late 40's early 50's, tell me they wished they had it all to do over again, they would gone into flying as soon as they could of and stuck to it, but Suzy wanted the house, and the family lifestyle, and they thought there would be time later, but once the commitments come and you elect to honor them, there is no later. This line of thought will probably bring out some different views, because it so politically incorrect. But I am semi management in a bottom feeder industry, so what would I know about an aviation career. However, you ask, so here is my input from the prospective of 40 years in this business. The job comes first until you reach a career position.

"...Nail on the head." Maybe this is why military pilots worked out so well before. I remember hearing a tale from a captain that I flew with once that said he'd hardly ever saw his dad because he was a Flying Tigers pilot and before that he was a Navy Pilot flying P-2's. He recalled that his dad loved flying and embraced his profession. Everyone in the family understood what their dad needed to do to work his way up and support the family. This man didn't work at the regionals but he worked for the US Government, which in my opinion can be less forgiving that the civilian sector. The government doesn't give two sh!ts if you've approached 16 hours in a day or if you've got a 5 hour sit and need a day room. Guess what, you're doing whatever you need to do to get the job done. Ever since there's been a huge influx of civilian wieners that want everything catered to them, it's been a downhill cycle. That's a side of aviation that PBS didn't talk about. I am part of a Navy family that has a flying and Marine infantry background. I used to stick up for my civilian counterparts and truly believed that we could as a whole, hold our own. I'm not so sure anymore. When the going get's rough, the "college educated CFI with no real world flying experience" pilot get's a latte. That's about it.

 

[Draginass]

If you love flying, getting a job with a commercial airline, regional OR major OR scum-bag cargo outfit will cure that.

I don't know ANYONE that I fly with that will recommend an aviation career for a young guy starting out. Airline managers are composed of a very high percentage of jerks, incompetents, and outright dishonest, lying thieves.

 

[Amish RakeFight]

sounds like an idiots job. There is more to life than flying a plane. Stay in school kids and pick a real "career" not a hobby where life takes second prioirty.

+1...

 

[Captain Morgan]

+1...

You two should get out now. Walk,... no run to the nearest employment agency. You know, there is more than one way to pay off a student loan. PM me if you want, I'll even help you as best I can if you need it. There's nothing worse than seeing someone miserable in what they do.

 

[trainer8]

Because it is still a great career, maybe not as good as it as used to be.
If you fly because you like to, are willing to take any job any where in the country that builds toward your next job. You will be successful in your career chioce. You need to be able to go through the paying your dues phase. It is hard, it is lots of moves, you go where the next job is, it is living in flop houses with 4 other pilots and one bathroom down the hall, it not buying any new underwear for one year, it is driving a car that you jump start from the battery you keep in the apt on a charger, it is being 100% subservient to your bosses wishes until you can move to your next job and he gives you a good recommendation. It is saying no to your brother’s birthday party, it is saying no to being home at Christmas. Come to think about it, this sounds alot like being in the Navy, except for the underwear part. They made us get new stuff. You need a talent for flying, you need a most gracious personality that focuses on what you can give and not what you can take, and a goal in sight that you will pursue no matter what. It will take up to 10 years to get to a career position. Family, girl fiends (more than one night), babies, do not count, they only get in the way. They will side track your career. I have had more than one flight student, older guys starting flying in their late 40's early 50's, tell me they wished they had it all to do over again, they would gone into flying as soon as they could of and stuck to it, but Suzy wanted the house, and the family lifestyle, and they thought there would be time later, but once the commitments come and you elect to honor them, there is no later. This line of thought will probably bring out some different views, because it so politically incorrect. But I am semi management in a bottom feeder industry, so what would I know about an aviation career. However, you ask, so here is my input from the prospective of 40 years in this business. The job comes first until you reach a career position.

Couldn't disagree more. Family ALWAYS comes first. No job is worth giving family up. 20 years in this industry. 28 years of marriage--solid. 4 kids. All have supported my career on two continents and have wanted nothing else. I've quit one job, the one I like the best, because I was gone to much. Best decision I ever made. Family always comes first.

T8

 

[WayBack]

Because it is still a great career, maybe not as good as it as used to be.
If you fly because you like to, are willing to take any job any where in the country that builds toward your next job. You will be successful in your career chioce. You need to be able to go through the paying your dues phase. It is hard, it is lots of moves, you go where the next job is, it is living in flop houses with 4 other pilots and one bathroom down the hall, it not buying any new underwear for one year, it is driving a car that you jump start from the battery you keep in the apt on a charger, it is being 100% subservient to your bosses wishes until you can move to your next job and he gives you a good recommendation. It is saying no to your brother’s birthday party, it is saying no to being home at Christmas. Come to think about it, this sounds alot like being in the Navy, except for the underwear part. They made us get new stuff. You need a talent for flying, you need a most gracious personality that focuses on what you can give and not what you can take, and a goal in sight that you will pursue no matter what. It will take up to 10 years to get to a career position. Family, girl fiends (more than one night), babies, do not count, they only get in the way. They will side track your career. I have had more than one flight student, older guys starting flying in their late 40's early 50's, tell me they wished they had it all to do over again, they would gone into flying as soon as they could of and stuck to it, but Suzy wanted the house, and the family lifestyle, and they thought there would be time later, but once the commitments come and you elect to honor them, there is no later. This line of thought will probably bring out some different views, because it so politically incorrect. But I am semi management in a bottom feeder industry, so what would I know about an aviation career. However, you ask, so here is my input from the prospective of 40 years in this business. The job comes first until you reach a career position.

This should be mandatory at all flight training facilities, along with Embry Riddle and the likes.
Some guys might disagree, I don't see how you can. It's the bare truth of the industry.

 

[mesaserf]

[100% subservient to your bosses wishes until you can move to your next job and he gives you a good recommendation.[/QUOTE]



Jesus... Did they let you have enough self dignity to tie on a bib before you crawled under the bosses desk?

Must be a Navy Aviation thing...

 

[pilotyip]

fits right in with

[100% subservient to your bosses wishes until you can move to your next job and he gives you a good recommendation.

Jesus... Did they let you have enough self dignity to tie on a bib before you crawled under the bosses desk?

Must be a Navy Aviation thing...[/QUOTE]You serve at the bosses pleasure until you leave that boss. It is your job. Fits right in with "If If you expect nothing you will never be disappointed" Still living the dream of a 5 yr old.

 

[pilotyip]

fits right in with

[100% subservient to your bosses wishes until you can move to your next job and he gives you a good recommendation.

Jesus... Did they let you have enough self dignity to tie on a bib before you crawled under the bosses desk?

Must be a Navy Aviation thing...

You serve at the bosses pleasure until you leave that boss. It is your job. Fits right in with "If you expect nothing you will never be disappointed" Still living the dream of a 5 yr old.

 

[Doc Holiday]

Because it is still a great career, maybe not as good as it as used to be.
If you fly because you like to, are willing to take any job any where in the country that builds toward your next job. You will be successful in your career chioce. You need to be able to go through the paying your dues phase. It is hard, it is lots of moves, you go where the next job is, it is living in flop houses with 4 other pilots and one bathroom down the hall, it not buying any new underwear for one year, it is driving a car that you jump start from the battery you keep in the apt on a charger, it is being 100% subservient to your bosses wishes until you can move to your next job and he gives you a good recommendation. It is saying no to your brother’s birthday party, it is saying no to being home at Christmas. Come to think about it, this sounds alot like being in the Navy, except for the underwear part. They made us get new stuff. You need a talent for flying, you need a most gracious personality that focuses on what you can give and not what you can take, and a goal in sight that you will pursue no matter what. It will take up to 10 years to get to a career position. Family, girl fiends (more than one night), babies, do not count, they only get in the way. They will side track your career. I have had more than one flight student, older guys starting flying in their late 40's early 50's, tell me they wished they had it all to do over again, they would gone into flying as soon as they could of and stuck to it, but Suzy wanted the house, and the family lifestyle, and they thought there would be time later, but once the commitments come and you elect to honor them, there is no later. This line of thought will probably bring out some different views, because it so politically incorrect. But I am semi management in a bottom feeder industry, so what would I know about an aviation career. However, you ask, so here is my input from the prospective of 40 years in this business. The job comes first until you reach a career position.

Most of these I agree are valid points. However, the part (that you highlighted yourself) about being "100% subservient to your boss until you can get a good recommendation and move on" (paraphrased) is absolute horse ********************. Entry level positions that offer the best experience tend to plagued with poor ethics, poor maintenance, and an unrelenting pressure to get the job done. And the people in positions of power at these joints don't care because they know if Honest Guy #1 knows better and refuses to do something that can harm his chances at a good career, well then Hoe Bag #1 will gladly do it with a smile on his face.

 

[pilotyip]

how about 72.7%?

Most of these I agree are valid points. However, the part (that you highlighted yourself) about being "100% subservient to your boss unti.........o something that can harm his chances at a good career, well then Hoe Bag #1 will gladly do it with a smile on his face.

How about we change it to 72.7%, and screw the job the other 27.3% of the time. Would that make you a better employee? Would that guarantee you would keep your job at a non-union 135, or Corp job? How much do you give an employer in return for a paycheck and the time to build skills to allow the move to the next job? My approach has always been to give 110% as long as it is legal, safe, and ethical. If not it is time to move on.