Flying Around Thunderstorms w/out Radar

[135wannabe]

I'm starting training in a piston cessna twin, 135 freight, night/day runs with no radar.

What are some good techniques for navigating around embedded weather with no radar? Do you get a real good wx briefing, look at weatherchannel, visit weather.com and print out a radar image, get ATC to vector you around the crap? I've heard that ATC will not vector you if they're too busy, then you're screwed. Is it appropriate to talk to the plane in front of you to see which headings they took to get through? When is it a good time to refuse to take a trip because the wx is just too bad. I've heard of some companies wanting you to bust thru level 3's and 4's. I'm just looking for technique here. I've heard lots of people on this board talk about flying in bad wx, but nobody really suggests specific techniques as to how to do it. Thanks for your input.

 

[falcondriver]

I've done it before in Barons. Its no fun.... Get real good wx briefings and use ATC. ATC is usually already funneling airplanes thru holes in the weather. They have never turned me down yet in the Falcons. Just remember, they are sitting behind a desk. I've had them give me vectors around weather and right into thunderstorms. Be careful and learn as much as you can.
Goodluck
FD

 

[Checks]

Look at the radar right before taking off and have a plan.

Fly low and avoid where the lightning/heavy rain is at.

Ask to follow a plane that has radar.

Have Fun!

 

[Groucho]

Thunderstorms w/out radar

I have done this in a Baron58. There is a suprising amount of weather that you can fly in, but also a lot you cannot.

All the above posts are correct and I would add two items.

There is a weather product called the RAREP or Radar Weather Report. This product is a coded transmission on the printer network with intensitys and bearings and distances. It is not a user friendly document but I learned to use it because where I was it was the only thing available. It comes out a 35 past the hour and is very accurate at that time. You can find out about this report in AC 00-45B Aviation Weather Services.

Another trick is to plan you route, if possible, at lower altitudes and by way of other class C airspace of other approach controls. The approach control radars are more sensitive to Wx than the center radars and they have higher resolution and they may be able to help you out better.

Don't be afraid to ask atc for different requests like; I would like this heading a a block altitiude of 4000 to 7000 to remain clear of clouds and to deviate around weather. If you are in radar contact and there is no other traffic then atc may very well give you your request. If have used this many times.

Hpe this helps.

 

[BoxFlyr]

i did it for 3 years in the southeast, not fun, but i survived. i agree with doing everything discussed so far. one other thing i did was to write all the awos freqs. on my ifr chart so if i wasn't able to get help from anyone else, i could check conditions along my route. also, aim for the lighter spots(doesn't always work). hope this helps. boxflyr

 

[U-I pilot]

use ADF?

In my instrument training ground school the instructor told us that when lightening strikes, the ADF needle will jump and point at the location of the strike...anyone tried this? Anyone actually use this? seems rather primative but i guess ya cant knock it till ya try it right?

 

[firstthird]

I wasn't ever a cargo hauler but I'd be careful if you ever get a weather forecast that uses thunderstorms and embedded in the same sentence.

When I was instructing in P-3s we had no weather radar since the radar operator doesn't fly on training flights usually, so, if the forecast called for embedded thunderstorms, I didn't go there. period.

The general rule of thumb is the safest way to avoid a thunderstorm is to fly around it by at least 20 miles (closer and a hail storm or lightning strike can still reach out and touch you). Failing that over it by a good margin, not an option in a piston, under it is less attractive (a downdraft can ruin your day) and through it is flat out stupid. IMO.

You are the PIC. At the Navy's aviation safety school they teach that the Weather is never a causal factor in an accident, it is what the crew did about it. Meaning, no one forced you to shoot an approach with a thunderstorm 3 miles off of short final or to arrive at your destination with so little fuel that you have no choice but to fly too close to a T-storm.

If you are flying IMC w/o an operable weather radar that you are familar with and know how to use well, and the forecast called for embedded Thunderstorms, I would posit that you are in the wrong place and if you are unlucky enough to take a lightning strike but lucky enough to survive your ticket may not survive the resulting FAA investigation. just my opinion, others have different ones.

Sorry for being long winded but I obviously feel strongly about the subject. The short answer to your question is that if there are embedded storms and you don't have a weather radar (lightning detector) then you should be able to maintain VMC for the duration of the flight and avoid T-storms visually. Failing that, don't go. Period.

 

[PRO AV8R]

I am currently flying freight in the southeast (Florida). I have had to deal with a lot of thunderstorms without radar. The previous posts are right on the money. Your best bet for air mass thunderstorms (summer time) in a piston aircraft is to fly low and try and go around the areas with the most lightning. ATC is also a real help. On the frequent occasion that there is no option other than to fly through a big, nasty towering cu, it is very important to slow down, extend gear if it is retractable, increase your cockpit lighting to reduce blindness from lightning, tighten your belt and keep the wings level. It is actually in a pshycotic way, kind of fun at times. It is amazing how your confidence level will soar after this type of flying.

 

[Dr4uh60l]

I fly along the same route everyday. I know there the intersections are in relation to the VOR's. I listen to the other people on the radio and try to get a mental picture of what's going on based on radio chatter. I never intentionally fly into storms, but eventually you will find yourself in one. Maintain a level attitude and accept the fact that your altitude will go up and down. Last night going into Atlanta, lightning was all around and I was getting tossed around pretty good in my C210. ATC asked how my ride was--I told them, "Like a Junebug in a bugzapper!" He laughed and said it would get better soon. ATC is usually pretty helpful at keeping you away from the really rough stuff--unless you are a Freight Dog and they want to get a report of it's intensity.

 

[135wannabe]

Thanks for all the good advice. Its funny how all of the aviation text books regarding weather and thunderstorms thoroughly explain the science behind thunderstorms, but techniques are not given too much regarding how to fly NEAR them without radar. Thank you all for your help and insight.

 

[135wannabe]

What is a diplomatic way to tell management (chief pilot, crew scheduling, whoever) that the weather is too bad to launch. I'm talking about one of these small bubbaclub 135 freight outfits where they want you to go no matter what. The people in charge at those types operations are usually pilots themselves. I've heard that unless a storm is right over the field (or close by), they want you to go ahead and go. I guess they will rather see you deviate 50 miles the opposite direction instead of not go at all. Is it appropriate to delay for a few hours for weather?? I know the airlines sometimes do this, but is this something that a 135 single pilot freightdog would do??

 

[Dr4uh60l]

With my company, the decision is up to the PIC. True--the cargo has to go if at all possible, but safety comes first. All pilots know the limitations of their airplanes, but SMART pilots know their personal limitations. Our OpSpecs (Operation Specifications approved by the FAA) prohibit us from flying into thunderstorms. However, it doesn't say anything about flying OUT of them...LOL. Thunderstorms are no joke and should be avoided. In the summer time, the "pop up" storms are generally isolated and easy to get around. Take a closer look if embedded storms are forecast---STAY AWAY from those. Usually, if you can't get into you destination airport you will know in advance and your company can contact your courier and meet you at an alternate. That's what I do and have never missed a delivery due to weather.

PS. I have never, and will never bust minimums on an approach in order to get a bunch of checks there. They don't bounce off the end of the runway! Flight Express stresses safety and not busting minimums. That'sw one reason I went to work for them and not some other "here today, gone tomorrow"company.

 

[embdrvr]

Lots of good advice so far. The only thing I have to add is make sure you know your Vb speed for your aircraft.
Also be aware that dropping the gear in some aircraft may help the situation. For one thing it helps you slow down without shock cooling and it adds a bit to stability. Be sure you don't exceed Vle if you try it.

 

[Checks]

If they want you to deviate around those T-Storms then go ahead and do it. If you have to go from Chicago to St Louis via Cleveland then that is all the more flight time for you.

Have Fun

 

[bigD]

In my instrument training ground school the instructor told us that when lightening strikes, the ADF needle will jump and point at the location of the strike...anyone tried this? Anyone actually use this? seems rather primative but i guess ya cant knock it till ya try it right?

I've done this on a late Summer flight through the southwest in a 182. The needle certainly swings with lightning strikes, but in my case there were cells all over the place, and the needle was swinging every which way. Basically there were too many strikes in too many directions to glean any useful information from it. It might be useful with fewer cells, but I certainly wouldn't use it as an excuse to launch into IMC with no radar and embedded convective activity around.