FltOptions may buy XOjet? Really?

[RNObased]

Yea because it makes a lot of sence for a non-union company to acquire an union one.:laugh:

One word Scope!

Really, scope that is what you are going with?? Scope, has nothing to do with it, if one company buys another, it is all seniority list language at that point.

Anyway, I doubt this is going to happen, however who has more money is the deciding factor not who is union isn't.

BTW, it is SENSE.

 

[1folinepilot]

Yea because it makes a lot of sence for a non-union company to acquire an union one.:laugh:

One word Scope!

How is your scope clause going to protect the pilots in a merge when it hasn't protect the pilots from all of the charter that MGT is selling off? What are we paying you for? You haven't even corrected the ridiculously low pilot staffing levels and recalled any furloughed pilots.

 

[johnsonrod]

According to which Options guys. Im with Options and doubt it. Were adding some X's, thats all.

I smell a troll.

Good news about the Xs. How many are you getting? Will they be incremental to the fleet or replace existing aircraft?

 

[ProFracPilot]

Good news about the Xs. How many are you getting? Will they be incremental to the fleet or replace existing aircraft?

They'll offset a reduction in other aircraft types. No additional pilots, just movement from within.

 

[johnsonrod]

They'll offset a reduction in other aircraft types. No additional pilots, just movement from within.

How many will you get? I am sure there are many pilots within FLOPS who would prefer flying a X to a Beechjet or Hawker.

By the way, how many Phenoms are you looking to add this year?

 

[Praetorian]

Really, scope that is what you are going with?? Scope, has nothing to do with it, if one company buys another, it is all seniority list language at that point.

Anyway, I doubt this is going to happen, however who has more money is the deciding factor not who is union isn't.

BTW, it is SENSE.

Ah...the spelling straw-man. Anyways, aren't you an NJ guy? You really should read your own scope article, which is almost identical to ours, written by the same attorney. While I'm no expert on this topic, you can see for yourself scope is very relevant in the event of a transaction.

1.5 Successor Transactions

1.5(a) Successor Obligations

1.5(a)(1) This Agreement shall be binding upon the parties hereto, their successors, administrators, executors, transferees and assigns. Any transaction that involves a transfer (in a single transaction or in a series of related multi-step transactions) to a Successor of ownership or control of the Company and/or substantially all of its assets shall be a “Successor Transaction” and subject to this Agreement.

1.5(a)(2) No contract or other legally binding commitment involving the transfer of ownership or control pursuant to a Successor Transaction shall be signed or otherwise entered into unless it is agreed, as a material and irrevocable condition of entering into, concluding and implementing such transaction that the Successor shall assume the employment of Pilots on the Flight Options Pilots Seniority List in accordance with the status quo consisting of the applicable rates of pay, rules and working conditions set forth in this Agreement (including its merger protections).

1.5(a)(3) The Company shall give written notice of the existence of this Agreement, and provide a copy of this Agreement to any proposed Successor before the Company and the proposed Successor enter into a Successor Transaction. A copy of the notice submitted to the proposed Successor shall be provided to the Union under standard confidentiality agreements at the Company’s request when permitted by applicable law, regulations and any confidentiality agreements, the latter of which shall not extend beyond the negotiation and execution of the written definitive agreement including the occurrence of any material contingencies.

1.5(b) Pilot Protections in the Event the Company is Acquired by another Air Carrier
Unless otherwise agreed, the following provisions shall apply in the event of a Successor Transaction that affects the Seniority rights of Pilots on the Flight Options Pilot Seniority List where the Company is acquired by another air carrier or its affiliate, and shall bind the Successor or surviving air carrier.

1.5(b)(1) The integration of the Seniority Lists of the respective Pilot groups shall be governed by Sections 3 and 13 of the Allegheny-Mohawk Labor Protective Provisions (“LPPs”). The parties shall promptly initiate the Seniority integration procedures of Sections 3 and 13 following announcement of an operational merger affecting the Seniority rights of the Pilot groups. The Company or other Successor, as appropriate, shall accept the integrated Seniority List. There shall be no system flush or removal of Pilots from their positions as a result of Seniority List integration.

1.5(b)(2) Prior to integration of Seniority Lists in accordance with paragraph 1.5(b)(1), above, the parties shall negotiate a mutually agreeable fence agreement. The fences shall remain in effect until Seniority Lists and CBAs are merged. Until the fences are removed, all aircraft (including orders and options to purchase aircraft) and the operations of each pre-transaction carrier shall remain separated. If the fence agreement cannot be reached within 60 days of a request by either party to begin negotiations, all unresolved issues shall be submitted to interest arbitration. The arbitrator’s resolution of the disputed issues shall be on an issue-by-issue basis, rather than a “total package” basis, and shall be binding on the parties with respect to the particular dispute, but shall have no precedential or binding effect on other or future disputes arising under this subparagraph.

1.5(b)(3) Unless and until an operational merger is finally effectuated, the Union shall continue to be recognized as the representative of the pre-merger Pilot craft or class to the extent provided by law. In the event of an operational merger, the representative of the post-merger craft or class shall be established pursuant to Section 2, Ninth of the Railway Labor Act, as amended.

1.5(b)(4) Prior to an operational merger, the surviving air carrier and the representative of the consolidated, post-merger Pilot craft or class shall negotiate modifications to the collective bargaining agreement necessary to permit the integration. If a modified agreement is not executed within nine months from the date a final and binding integrated Pilot Seniority List is issued, the parties shall submit outstanding issues to binding interest arbitration. The arbitrator’s resolution of the disputed issues shall be on an issue-by-issue basis, rather than a “total package” basis, and shall be binding on the parties with respect to the particular dispute, but shall have no precedential or binding effect on other or future disputes arising under this subparagraph. Until such time as a fully merged agreement is reached, either through bargaining or arbitration, the surviving air carrier may continue to operate the two carriers separately.

 

[Praetorian]

I'm not sure how a merger would make a difference. If XO Jet is based in Arizona, that's a right to work state, so no one is required to be in the union. If they did merge and moved everything to AZ, would that negate any scope issues? I honestly don't know and would like to.

It really has nothing to do with what state the acquiring company is based in. The contract would be upheld and enforced as written regardless.

 

[Praetorian]

How is your scope clause going to protect the pilots in a merge when it hasn't protect the pilots from all of the charter that MGT is selling off? What are we paying you for? You haven't even corrected the ridiculously low pilot staffing levels and recalled any furloughed pilots.

I'm not sure who you think I am freeloader? But as a line pilot at Flops, I think we are getting every penny's worth.

Of course you are making out better than most since you got your contract for free.

 

[RNObased]

Ah...the spelling straw-man. Anyways, aren't you an NJ guy? You really should read your own scope article, which is almost identical to ours, written by the same attorney. While I'm no expert on this topic, you can see for yourself scope is very relevant in the event of a transaction.

1.5 Successor Transactions

1.5(a) Successor Obligations

1.5(a)(1) This Agreement shall be binding upon the parties hereto, their successors, administrators, executors, transferees and assigns. Any transaction that involves a transfer (in a single transaction or in a series of related multi-step transactions) to a Successor of ownership or control of the Company and/or substantially all of its assets shall be a “Successor Transaction” and subject to this Agreement.

1.5(a)(2) No contract or other legally binding commitment involving the transfer of ownership or control pursuant to a Successor Transaction shall be signed or otherwise entered into unless it is agreed, as a material and irrevocable condition of entering into, concluding and implementing such transaction that the Successor shall assume the employment of Pilots on the Flight Options Pilots Seniority List in accordance with the status quo consisting of the applicable rates of pay, rules and working conditions set forth in this Agreement (including its merger protections).

1.5(a)(3) The Company shall give written notice of the existence of this Agreement, and provide a copy of this Agreement to any proposed Successor before the Company and the proposed Successor enter into a Successor Transaction. A copy of the notice submitted to the proposed Successor shall be provided to the Union under standard confidentiality agreements at the Company’s request when permitted by applicable law, regulations and any confidentiality agreements, the latter of which shall not extend beyond the negotiation and execution of the written definitive agreement including the occurrence of any material contingencies.

1.5(b) Pilot Protections in the Event the Company is Acquired by another Air Carrier
Unless otherwise agreed, the following provisions shall apply in the event of a Successor Transaction that affects the Seniority rights of Pilots on the Flight Options Pilot Seniority List where the Company is acquired by another air carrier or its affiliate, and shall bind the Successor or surviving air carrier.

1.5(b)(1) The integration of the Seniority Lists of the respective Pilot groups shall be governed by Sections 3 and 13 of the Allegheny-Mohawk Labor Protective Provisions (“LPPs”). The parties shall promptly initiate the Seniority integration procedures of Sections 3 and 13 following announcement of an operational merger affecting the Seniority rights of the Pilot groups. The Company or other Successor, as appropriate, shall accept the integrated Seniority List. There shall be no system flush or removal of Pilots from their positions as a result of Seniority List integration.

1.5(b)(2) Prior to integration of Seniority Lists in accordance with paragraph 1.5(b)(1), above, the parties shall negotiate a mutually agreeable fence agreement. The fences shall remain in effect until Seniority Lists and CBAs are merged. Until the fences are removed, all aircraft (including orders and options to purchase aircraft) and the operations of each pre-transaction carrier shall remain separated. If the fence agreement cannot be reached within 60 days of a request by either party to begin negotiations, all unresolved issues shall be submitted to interest arbitration. The arbitrator’s resolution of the disputed issues shall be on an issue-by-issue basis, rather than a “total package” basis, and shall be binding on the parties with respect to the particular dispute, but shall have no precedential or binding effect on other or future disputes arising under this subparagraph.

1.5(b)(3) Unless and until an operational merger is finally effectuated, the Union shall continue to be recognized as the representative of the pre-merger Pilot craft or class to the extent provided by law. In the event of an operational merger, the representative of the post-merger craft or class shall be established pursuant to Section 2, Ninth of the Railway Labor Act, as amended.

1.5(b)(4) Prior to an operational merger, the surviving air carrier and the representative of the consolidated, post-merger Pilot craft or class shall negotiate modifications to the collective bargaining agreement necessary to permit the integration. If a modified agreement is not executed within nine months from the date a final and binding integrated Pilot Seniority List is issued, the parties shall submit outstanding issues to binding interest arbitration. The arbitrator’s resolution of the disputed issues shall be on an issue-by-issue basis, rather than a “total package” basis, and shall be binding on the parties with respect to the particular dispute, but shall have no precedential or binding effect on other or future disputes arising under this subparagraph. Until such time as a fully merged agreement is reached, either through bargaining or arbitration, the surviving air carrier may continue to operate the two carriers separately.

Thank you for proving my point. It is obvious that you aren't an expert. You are posting the part of the contract called "Successor Transactions" This is about keeping the contract in tack if your company is sold, bought or acquired. There is nothing about SCOPE, in there. It is about pilot pay protection, aircraft fences and seniority list protection and the integrity of the contract going forward. It also provides time lines to change the CBA if needed, all this if the company is bought or sold. SCOPE is different, it is about who is flying your owners.

I have read many contracts, weather your company is bought/sold or acquires someone has nothing to do with the scope clause in the CBA. I'm not saying you don't have a scope clause in your contract, I'm sure you do. However it isn't going to stop someone from buying you or you buying someone else. The contract should allow the company to continue to do business as before, while still providing protection(s) for the pilots.

 

[Ludicrous Speed]

RNObased - Not a contract expert, but the section you may be looking for is 1.4 - parallel operations - a short couple paragraphs in a 14 page long section.

1folinepilot - Don't doubt mgt is playing games, but do you have any tangible proof or concrete numbers "of the charter that MGT is selling off?