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Flt. Training in SLC-75/hr includes CFI
- Thread starter utahpilot
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The reasons I ask about the low instructor cost are. There are professional instructors out there who can't afford to live on rates like that and you are under cutting them. People complain every other day that it is hard to find professional instructors but, if people are willing to instruct for so little, how can anyone make a profession out of it? The kid at the local driving range charges more for golf lessons. He has no official training and I don't think anyone has died from playing a bad game of golf. Most good instructors charge from $30-50/Hr.
Take care and please don't take any offense by my remarks but, think about what you are doing. Good luck.
Take care and please don't take any offense by my remarks but, think about what you are doing. Good luck.
Supply & Demand.
No CFI has a responsibility to other CFI's in terms of the rate he charges. If one CFI is able to keep his costs down such that he can charge less and thereby have more students that that is his perogative. He may have a low profit margin but the high volume may very well off-set the difference.
He does not have to keep from undercutting other CFIs unless he is using unfair busines practices. Achieving lower costs is not an unfair business practice. To suggest that he keep his prices in line with other CFI's is tantamount to price fixing which is illegal.
Kevin
No CFI has a responsibility to other CFI's in terms of the rate he charges. If one CFI is able to keep his costs down such that he can charge less and thereby have more students that that is his perogative. He may have a low profit margin but the high volume may very well off-set the difference.
He does not have to keep from undercutting other CFIs unless he is using unfair busines practices. Achieving lower costs is not an unfair business practice. To suggest that he keep his prices in line with other CFI's is tantamount to price fixing which is illegal.
Kevin
utahpilot
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I have never understood the line of thinking that says that someone should go broke, lose his house, car, and jeapordize his whole financial future in the name of some imagined 'code' among aviators. A couple of things:
1-LIFE is supply and demand. The guy who can provide it faster, cheaper, and everywhere will always have an advantage. Flight training, as we all know, costs a ton.
2-The cost: I charge 15/hr for Private students because that's my cut from a flight school I also work at, after the school takes it's 17/hr (32/hr for dual). I FREELANCE on the side, flying with guys who are training for fun, to buy their own plane, etc. I save them 17+ per hour, the AC owner carries the insurance. I set my own rate, and I have to compete with schools (like the one I work at) that have tons of planes, mechanics, and CFI's but who charge much more.
3-I have to freelance on the side to make SOME money, since instructing at the school takes most of my day but pays me nothing in the end. I am doing whatever I can to make ends meet, build time, and keep flying. How can you presume to fault me for that? What other option do you propose I consider?
I have a very SMALL load of freelance students, most are friends. How anyone could look at what I'm doing as undercutting other CFIs or pilots is to me, well, just plain nuts.
rock on
UP
1-LIFE is supply and demand. The guy who can provide it faster, cheaper, and everywhere will always have an advantage. Flight training, as we all know, costs a ton.
2-The cost: I charge 15/hr for Private students because that's my cut from a flight school I also work at, after the school takes it's 17/hr (32/hr for dual). I FREELANCE on the side, flying with guys who are training for fun, to buy their own plane, etc. I save them 17+ per hour, the AC owner carries the insurance. I set my own rate, and I have to compete with schools (like the one I work at) that have tons of planes, mechanics, and CFI's but who charge much more.
3-I have to freelance on the side to make SOME money, since instructing at the school takes most of my day but pays me nothing in the end. I am doing whatever I can to make ends meet, build time, and keep flying. How can you presume to fault me for that? What other option do you propose I consider?
I have a very SMALL load of freelance students, most are friends. How anyone could look at what I'm doing as undercutting other CFIs or pilots is to me, well, just plain nuts.
rock on
UP
TankerPuke
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TankerPuke
RALPHIE
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bobbysamd
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Per hour rates
I remember that Mesa paid me $15/hour for all my contact time nine years ago. I thought that was fair - but that was nine years ago. For my first few weeks I was making a ton of money. I also was working more than I wanted. Then, I had no work the last 2½ weeks and I wasn't making squat.
I got with ERAU in 1988 and was paid $13.16 an hour. Higher than most of the instructors Riddle then employed, but I also had more flight time and had some experience instructing. We were expected to put in at least 30 hours of contact time a week. Multiply it and it isn't bad money, but getting 30 hours wasn't easy, sometimes, with the lack of aircraft and the SOL (read that as you please - you know what I mean - but it meant "student overload," officially.).
I've been on the "retired" list for some time, but, even to me, $15/hour these days seems low. As a whole, flight instructors are grossly underpaid, considering the work they do, which is indeed a service, and the responsibility they have and continue to have long after they turn their students loose. The pay should contemplate that responsibility.
Don't forget, there may be self-employment tax you have to pay. Not to mention the best professional liability insurance you can afford, which should include a legal defense in case of lawsuit. Factor in these costs, and I doubt that $15/hour can cover them and leave you with any net income.
One other point. Don't forget to charge for your ground time. That's part of the service you render. Don't give it away (but don't be greedy, either).
For a lot of us, flight instruction is more than a means to an end. It's almost a calling. On the other hand, it's your bread-and-butter. If you do good work, you should be paid accordingly.
I remember that Mesa paid me $15/hour for all my contact time nine years ago. I thought that was fair - but that was nine years ago. For my first few weeks I was making a ton of money. I also was working more than I wanted. Then, I had no work the last 2½ weeks and I wasn't making squat.
I got with ERAU in 1988 and was paid $13.16 an hour. Higher than most of the instructors Riddle then employed, but I also had more flight time and had some experience instructing. We were expected to put in at least 30 hours of contact time a week. Multiply it and it isn't bad money, but getting 30 hours wasn't easy, sometimes, with the lack of aircraft and the SOL (read that as you please - you know what I mean - but it meant "student overload," officially.).
I've been on the "retired" list for some time, but, even to me, $15/hour these days seems low. As a whole, flight instructors are grossly underpaid, considering the work they do, which is indeed a service, and the responsibility they have and continue to have long after they turn their students loose. The pay should contemplate that responsibility.
Don't forget, there may be self-employment tax you have to pay. Not to mention the best professional liability insurance you can afford, which should include a legal defense in case of lawsuit. Factor in these costs, and I doubt that $15/hour can cover them and leave you with any net income.
One other point. Don't forget to charge for your ground time. That's part of the service you render. Don't give it away (but don't be greedy, either).
For a lot of us, flight instruction is more than a means to an end. It's almost a calling. On the other hand, it's your bread-and-butter. If you do good work, you should be paid accordingly.
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Cost is certainly a major consideration. Another is a CFI's ability to teach me the things I need to know to be a safe pilot. I'm able to get along with most people so I'm not as concerned as others might be with making sure personalities "match." As long as the CFI can help me learn that that I need to know I'll probably work just fine with him. If for some reason it doesn't work out I'll find another CFI.
Kevin
Kevin
So you think you are covered by the owners insurance. Guess again. If they bend metal the insurance companies can go after you. Even the owner can go after you since you "taught him/her incorrectly."
So you are actually stealing from your employer.
Does the city or state rquire you to have a business license?
At $30/Hr. and up I averaged over 100hrs. a month. Why so busy. Reputation. Earn a reputation as being very good and you won't have to live with the reputation of being very cheap. People do pay for quality, especially when their life is on the line.
The kid cutting the lawn makes more than you. He does do a great job.
So you are actually stealing from your employer.
Does the city or state rquire you to have a business license?
At $30/Hr. and up I averaged over 100hrs. a month. Why so busy. Reputation. Earn a reputation as being very good and you won't have to live with the reputation of being very cheap. People do pay for quality, especially when their life is on the line.
The kid cutting the lawn makes more than you. He does do a great job.
utahpilot
Seeing the light
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Mickey,
good for freaking you. you are so awesome, I wish I could be JUST like you. can you send me a letter explaining to me how to be so super, so cool? I want to be just like you.
give me a break. I freelance, ON THE side, for friends. they buy their OWN insurance, and sign lots of paperwork with the owner of the plane.
boy I'm glad I don't live in your neurotic little world.
good for freaking you. you are so awesome, I wish I could be JUST like you. can you send me a letter explaining to me how to be so super, so cool? I want to be just like you.
give me a break. I freelance, ON THE side, for friends. they buy their OWN insurance, and sign lots of paperwork with the owner of the plane.
boy I'm glad I don't live in your neurotic little world.
How can you make any money at $15 per hour? I make more then that working for a school. I also was making 35/hr freelance, and that was back when I had only about 100 hrs dual. I think you are seriously undercharging. Don't forget the extra tax you have to pay being self-employed.
Mickey has some good points about the insurance.
Mickey has some good points about the insurance.
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