FLOPS pilots doing overtime!

[skanza]

Obviously you don't get it. It doesn't matter what the reason is, there is NO good excuse. If management didn't have these scum doing OT, then they would have to call back a furloughed pilot to get the coverage they need, even if it was only temporary or on a contract basis!

Think about what you would want the other pilots to do if the situation were reversed, and you were the one unemployed. Don't be selfish and short sighted.

NO OT 'til ALL the furloughed pilots are back, No excuses !

Read your own words, buddy.

 

[dime line]

So you say I don't get it because I'm not the kind of pilot that goes around with my d!ck in my hand saying "I'm the captain, I fly this jet - look at me". I guess just because a person is more humble than you means they don't "get it"? Well, it depends on on you define as "it", I probably don't want to.
I don't have the poor attitude, I was just raising the question of what's wrong with pilots flying OT. You haters are the ones picking fights and flaming me. Geez....

I have a hard time believing you suck the same O2 that I breath!

 

[ExJmbDrv]

I don't know how you get to day 10, but at CA there are two types of overtime. The volunteer kind - which I can never bring myself to do. The forced kind - which I have only had to do when I asked in advance to be home for something important. If it is the forced kind, it is a do it or you're fired situation. Either of these usually means an extra day maybe two in freak situation.

If the guy is really on day 10 at a 7 on/7 off company, he must have some issues. He is trying to pay for something that he'll never get to use or staying away from something that he doesn't want to deal with. Either way, the act/situation itself is probably its own punishment.

If it is a one time gig to help the company during a H1N1 outbreak or a blizzard, it is forgivable. You don't want to bankrupt the company trying to get your buddy recalled. If it is a habitual issue, I hope his bad karma catches up with him soon.

 

[BeenThereDoneIt]

FLOPS guys voted to strike a long time ago but won't do it. No sympathy here.

 

[993_Pilot]

FLOPS guys voted to strike a long time ago but won't do it. No sympathy here.

We will if and when we get released, but we haven't been yet. You say this like we have a choice right now.

Read your own words, buddy.

Pilots doing OT are being selfish and shortsighted... What's the problem?

 

[Ludicrous Speed]

ExJmbDrv-

The last paragraph of your 01/07 post is probably one of the best perspectives & summations on overtime I've read in years!

 

[Jack Campbell]

ExJmbDrv has it right. I am on my last week at NJA before being furloughed and don't want to see overtime abused. But if it helps Netjets to extend a pilot when needed, so be it. Selloffs are part of the business model, too. Its gonna happen. Not a big deal, so long as its not being abused.
The issue at hand is whether a pilot or a Company is abusing overtime. Different story. Cosmic Justice has a way of catching up to those guys, and rest assured, we all know who you are! uke:

 

[Fedmagnet]

That is very sad. We are struggling to put food on the table and guys are doing OT. That really pisses me off! Doing OT with guys on the street is just as bad as being a scab. Those names should be published.

Ask any flight attendant; senority #1 Bri L (skanza) and Kev K. etc.

 

[993_Pilot]

Ask any flight attendant; senority #1 Bri L (skanza) and Kev K. etc.

Pretty sure #1 BL hasn't been doing OT for a long time now, and he is a MIG too. KK is a management wanna-be and the flight attendants are their own separate group, and not part of the union.

 

[bunman45]

Same at other companies as well. You will always have your overtime w*************************.

 

[Myster79]

Really? What exactly is wrong with that?
Plus, you called dispatch to check on someone else's OT? Mind your business, fella.

Your an idiot! Anyone that does OT when pilots are furloughed are scum! You are hurting every furloughed pilot and their families.

 

[skanza]

Your an idiot! (I think you mean *you're*) Anyone that does OT when pilots are furloughed are scum! You are hurting every furloughed pilot and their families.

No sorry, no scum here. Actually, the temporary OT done is to make up for a temporary shortness of crews due to a temporary increased demand. No one is trying to hurt any furloughed pilots. If they hired back people just to prevent paying OT to others - they'll eventually had to trim back to the level that the business demands. I think that would be worse ethically than just paying current crews OT. Plus, it's also cheaper to pay OT in the short term than to hire additional heads. This is a business after all - not a charity for employing people. Don't take any of this personally.

I know you'll hate my answer and accuse me of being a troll, mgmnt puppet, etc...(none of which is true), but I'm just trying to present it objectively. Try it sometime.

 

[dime line]

No sorry, no scum here. Actually, the temporary OT done is to make up for a temporary shortness of crews due to a temporary increased demand. No one is trying to hurt any furloughed pilots. If they hired back people just to prevent paying OT to others - they'll eventually had to trim back to the level that the business demands. I think that would be worse ethically than just paying current crews OT. Plus, it's also cheaper to pay OT in the short term than to hire additional heads. This is a business after all - not a charity for employing people. Don't take any of this personally.

I know you'll hate my answer and accuse me of being a troll, mgmnt puppet, etc...(none of which is true), but I'm just trying to present it objectively. Try it sometime.

No, actually I agree with your statement (although I still don't do OT), BUT, we have had an increase in demand since Aug last year. This from a PSM.

 

[William Holiday]

no, actually i agree with your statement (although i still don't do ot), but, we have had an increase in demand since aug last year. This from a psm.

you don't have to hire anyone, just call back a few.

 

[993_Pilot]

They use furloughed Flight Attendants on a contract basis, they could at least offer some of the furloughed pilots some contract work too. I suspect that the real reason they don't is that management is trying to divide and conquer. I think that they're also hoping that more furloughed pilots won't come back, so when they do have to hire it will be a "new hire" pay rate instead of recalling another pilot with 7 to 9 years of seniority.

 

[fracjack]

The fact they ask for overtime is more mis management of a sustainable business plan with proper planning and a right sized labor force. Throw in a labor dispute and you get resistance to change. No one has an excuse to do overtime at this point,NO ONE.

 

[William Holiday]

They use furloughed Flight Attendants on a contract basis, they could at least offer some of the furloughed pilots some contract work too. I suspect that the real reason they don't is that management is trying to divide and conquer. I think that they're also hoping that more furloughed pilots won't come back, so when they do have to hire it will be a "new hire" pay rate instead of recalling another pilot with 7 to 9 years of seniority.

Spot ON !

 

[ProFracPilot]

They use furloughed Flight Attendants on a contract basis, they could at least offer some of the furloughed pilots some contract work too.

The flight attendants were not furloughed. They were terminated and don't have recall rights. And while the company has been using these flight attendants as "cabin" attendants on an as-needed basis, they are also using other contract "cabin" attendants that have no prior connection to the company. When used, the "cabin" attendants have no safety responsibilities, are listed as passengers and are not crew.

 

[993_Pilot]

The flight attendants were not furloughed. They were terminated and don't have recall rights. And while the company has been using these flight attendants as "cabin" attendants on an as-needed basis, they are also using other contract "cabin" attendants that have no prior connection to the company. When used, the "cabin" attendants have no safety responsibilities, are listed as passengers and are not crew.

OK, I stand corrected, but the point was that they use Flight/Cabin Attendants (or whatever you call them) on a contract /day rate basis, and they should do the same with the pilots instead of asking for OT. They have made life difficult for all the pilots on furlough (and their families). The least they could do is throw them a bone when they need more manpower.

... but like I said before, I suspect that they have other motives.

 

[ProFracPilot]

OK, I stand corrected, but the point was that they use Flight/Cabin Attendants (or whatever you call them) on a contract /day rate basis, and they should do the same with the pilots instead of asking for OT. They have made life difficult for all the pilots on furlough (and their families). The least they could do is throw them a bone when they need more manpower.

... but like I said before, I suspect that they have other motives.

The company should staff to a realistic pilot/airplane ratio before doling out OT. On this we agree.

I don't think the analogy with FA's work and here's why. The company is unable to use furloughed pilots for the same reason they're unable to call the fired FA's crew: Training and currency. They're not spending the $$ to keep the FA's they fired current. But they can throw them in the back, without currency, call them Cabin Attendants and give the illusion to owners that they have a full crew. There's no way to do that with pilots.